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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #49  
Old January 29th, 2019, 03:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Here's the first test for Cassie:

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Cassie Hack
Army Test 1
Map: Bad Moon Rising (no glyphs)
Armies:
Cassie Hack, Morbius, Angel (Warren Worthington III) (460 points)

vs.
Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Armor, Jubilee (460 points)

Spoiler Alert!


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Last edited by Lazy Orang; January 29th, 2019 at 03:42 PM.
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  #50  
Old January 30th, 2019, 09:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Any thoughts, @Ronin ? I know you wanted me to check in after I completed Test One.


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  #51  
Old January 30th, 2019, 10:09 AM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Sorry, got distracted by some of the stuff in the silly release thread.

I think we're looking good so far - willing to stay the course going into game two.
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  #52  
Old January 30th, 2019, 06:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Excellent. Not 100% sure when I'll be able to get on that, but it'll be Saturday at the very latest - I've already got the match-up set up. We've got:

Cassie Hack, Sub-Zero, Solomon Kane, Angel (Warren Worthington III) (600)
vs
Jason Voorhees, Scorpion (Hanzo Hasashi), Michael Myres, Chucky (600)

I can tweak it if you'd prefer, though.


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  #53  
Old January 30th, 2019, 08:05 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Works for me.
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  #54  
Old February 2nd, 2019, 05:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Sorry for the delay (again), but here's my first test for Cassie. Second test plus paint-guide will come tonight.

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Cassie Hack @120 points

Army Test 1
Map: Island Planecrash (no E-glyph)
Units: Euthanized: Cassie Hack (120), Green Lantern (Stew) (340), Vertigo (90), Beast Boy (Cheetah) (20), Green Shield Construct (20), Skrull Infiltrator x1 (10)- 600 total vs Girls Gone Dead: Silver Banshee (290), Typhoid Mary (120), Vampire Minions x2 (180), Skrull Infiltrator x1 (10)- 600 total
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test 2
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Hack: Cassie Hack (120), Rover (160), Zombie (120), Skrull Infiltrator x1 (10)- 410 total vs Slash: Sam (95), Jason (175), Mike Myers (135)- 405 total
Spoiler Alert!



Overall: Cassie feels fine to me. She's pretty much a pure counter-draft unit, and even in that role she's hardly oppressive or anything. I think the sheer number of cards she can counter to some degree or another gives her plenty of value though. She's a counter-draft that I'd consider dropping into a pre-built tourney army on occasion, which is a pretty rare bird. I could see a slight cost drop though, unless there are plans for some reasonably juicy Slayer synergy at some point or another.


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Last edited by Soundwarp SG-1; February 2nd, 2019 at 10:40 PM.
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  #55  
Old February 2nd, 2019, 04:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

- Theme Test - Inconclusive, as I don't know the character.
- Mirror Test - Pass.
- Bonding Test - Pass, no Slayer synergy yet.
- Synergies Test - Pass - Human synergy's weak enough that it mostly just acts to make her hard to justify in Guardians builds.
- Power Check - Pass - She has some interesting powers, but they're not that strong, and even if she is starting to feel dangerous or irritating she's very frail and easy to break.
- Fun Test - Pass - I had a decent amount of fun with her.
- Fun Competitive Test - Pass - Glass cannons like this are always kind of fun to play against.
- Drafting Test - Tentative Pass - I'd only be likely to take her as a counter-draft, either against Slashers (extra attack boost) or figures with passive auto-wounding powers (Hack/Slash), and even then I'd probably be tempted to take something else due to how low her constitution is. I'd be sorely tempted to drop her price a bit to make her more attractive as a counter-draft figure. In pre-built army games? Probably not going to take her, she's just not that kind of figure.
- Usage Test - Pass - Both powers got use. Oddly enough, I found the attack boost much more useful in the first battle while Hack/Slash was her main effect in the first.
- Strategy Test - Pass - Whether it’s timing pulling her back with Angel to charge in for the full effect of Slasher Slayer or its timing when you want get in the face of someone like Gorgon to use Hack/Slash, in both cases trying to time her engagements so that she’s likely to at least do something before going down, she’s quite strategic.

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Cassie Hack
Army Test 1
Map: Bad Moon Rising (no glyphs)
Armies:
Cassie Hack, Morbius, Angel (Warren Worthington III) (460 points)

vs.
Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Armor, Jubilee (460 points)

Spoiler Alert!



Army Test 2
Map:
Mayberry by mad_wookie (No Glyphs)
Armies;
Cassie Hack, Sub-Zero, Solomon Kane, Angel (Warren Worthington III) (600 points)
vs.
Jason Voorhees, Scorpion (Hanzo Hasashi), Michael Myres, Chucky (600 points)
Spoiler Alert!


Thoughts On The Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, & Draftibility:


In my opinion, a counter unit or a niche unit should be particularly effective, for its cost, for the specific occasion that it calls for. This is true not just in Heroscape, but in other strategy games as well. I’ve been playing some Age of Kings lately, a game where, while a pike line unit will never beat an equally upgraded knight line unit one on one, will still exchange in a more cost effective way due to doing a somewhat disproportionate amount of damage for its very cheap cost - against the very specific units it is designed to fight (it's a cavalry counter unit, and that's pretty much all). If the pikeman had been priced to adequately reflect the amount of damage it could do to the stronger, more expensive knight, it wouldn’t be worth training - it would only be exchanging vaguely equally in the situation it was built for, and would, the rest of the time, just underperform, meaning that you’d be better off training something else under all circumstances.

An all-rounder unit trading equally is acceptable, because they can turn their hand to multiple situations and work well, but if a counter unit only reaches the level of average for its cost when it’s in its element, it’s not serving its function adequately. It just acts like a regular unit in the place it was meant to excel while feeling disappointing everywhere else. It fails to be a counter, and it fails to be a normal unit, trapped in a no-man’s land where there’s no real purpose to its existence.

I fear Cassie risks entering that territory, rather than actually being a counter unit. I never felt like I had a particular advantage over the units she was meant to be used against. With that stat-line and power set, set against no Slashers and no characters with passive auto-wounds, she’s just a fairly generic unit with low-to-middling stats and a power that can bring her attack up from pretty low to pretty good under certain specific conditions. That is not worth 120 points, and that’s okay - she doesn’t need to be cost effective in the situations she’s not built for. Against those units, though, she’s feeling, at best, adequately priced - not good for her cost, fair. That isn’t a counter. A counter should be good against its target for its cost, not just acceptable. Its reward for fighting the unit its meant to fight needs to be more than just upgrading from overpriced or underpowered to a regular, okay unit - it needs to be worth more than its printed cost. I feel like bringing her down closer to 100 would make Cassie feel more like an effective, cheap counter to Slashers and passive auto-wounders (while still, incidentally, being on the boring, weak and fragile side against generic armies, though admittedly a bit more usable if you really want), rather than a unit who needs to both be used right and against the very specific correct units to manage to be just okay. She didn't feel any more effective against the characters she was designed to fight for her cost than the other, all-rounder characters who I brought along, and that doesn't seem right.

Other than that, I like her. I think her powers are fun, I think the way she plays works well. I just think she fails to be cost effective as a counter unit right now, and that’s specifically as a counter unit.


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  #56  
Old February 2nd, 2019, 10:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Thanks, guys! Looks to me like she's playing pretty well and we just need to figure out the cost.

She's 2-7, but she had a couple solid individual performances, and I am planning on developing Slayer synergy a little bit - they're never gonna be the Titans, but she'll pick up a few potential bonding partners and similar.

I think going all the way down to 90 would be underselling the value of her base stats a little bit, but I could see dipping down as far as 105. Might be neat to go for a 5-value to mirror the Slashers all being 5s.
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  #57  
Old February 2nd, 2019, 10:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Yeah I definitely wouldn't go 90. I didn't really have a problem paying 120 for her, so yeah I'd say 105 is her bottom limit.


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  #58  
Old February 2nd, 2019, 11:05 PM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (Public Testing)

Alright, let's give her a soft bump down to 110 and go ahead to final editing.

Made a couple little wording tweaks.

There was a clause I meant to have in there the whole time to clarify that Hack/Slash couldn't counter SAs. Accidentally dropped it at some point, but fortunately no-one tested it as countering SAs, so I just snuck that wording back in.

I know there were some thoughts on the power names and whether Hack/Slash should be named something more reusable.

I've mulled that over and, honestly, I think it's the design centerpiece here and I don't mind giving people some pause before reusing it, or cause to shake up the mechanics a little. Open to other thoughts, though.
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  #59  
Old February 3rd, 2019, 12:03 AM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (VOTE Editing)

-How to Mod and Repaint Cassie Hack-

Converting Irma and company into Cassie Hack requires a little modding and a fairly simple repaint job. To start, you will need these figures:

Irma from TMNT Heroes in a Half-Shell. This is the primary figure you'll be using.

Surge from X-Men Xavier's School. This figure will only be donating its head to the cause.

The next part needed is simply a female hand holding a gun. I used Colleen Wing and Misty Knight from the Amazing Spider-Man set because Misty's gun hand had a little bracelet like detail on it that matched with Irma's hand, but basically any figure will work here.

To start modding, first remove Irma's right hand. Then her forearm at the elbow.



Next, harvest your chosen gun hand.




Now you may wish to remove Irma's head before doing this next step, but I've ordered it this way so you can follow what becomes of each piece easier. For this step, reattach Irma's forearm at the angle shown then attach the gun hand to it.



Now remove Irma's head at the angle shown:



And harvest Surge's head:



Now attach Surge's head to Irma's body, you should do a test fit before gluing as you may need to do some trimming to get them to fit together smoothly.



...And you're done modding! Now after you're done congratulating yourself you can get to painting. Just follow the paint guide here:



Color A: A light flesh tone for all the bits of Irma's skin except her forearms and hand and for Surge's head. You're trying get an even skin tone here, so it doesn't especially matter on the exact color. Mine was a mix of a Model Master Acryl light skin tone base and a tiny drop of Insignia Red. All you're doing here is painting over the aforementioned bits. It's very easy for the Irma parts, for the head you'll want to be a bit more careful and avoid the eyes and lips (unless you feel comfortable repaint those bits yourself).

Color B: A flat black for anything that isn't either something you just painted or a handgun. I used Model Master Acryl Aircraft Interior Black. This is a simple step, just paint everything not your chosen flesh tone, or gunmetal, black. You may also wish to add a 'choker' to her neck as I did to help hide the joining of the neck and head.

Color C: A flat dark gray for her belt. I just mixed in a touch of white into the black paint I already had out for this, but any gray will do. All you're doing here is painting a line above her skirt.

Color D: A semi-gloss black for her belt buckle. I used Model Master Acryl Semi-Gloss Black. Just paint a wee square in the middle of her belt and you're done.

Color E: A metallic silver for her belt buckle and choker. I used Tamiya Chrome Silver for this. Just add a small dot to her choker and a box of silver inside the semi-gloss black square you just made.

Color F: A flat red for assorted accents and blood splatter. I used Model Master Acryl Insignia Red. To start with here, just paint the raised on her boots and gloves solid red. Then add some red on the back of her hands and the top of her feet. To do the blood splatter, take a large brush and wipe it until only a bit of paint remains on it. Then hold the brush about an inch or so away from the figure and flick the brush with your finger. This will result in a spray of 'blood' randomly hitting the figure. You may wish to test this technique on a spare miniature or other disposable surface to get a feel for it before attempting it on Cassie, as doing it wrong can result in covering the whole figure in red paint.


My Repaints and Mods: Updated 1-13
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  #60  
Old February 3rd, 2019, 12:09 AM
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Re: The Book of Cassie Hack (VOTE Editing)

Awesome! Linked in the OP
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