The Book of Midnighter

[Karat]

Great tips! Thanks!

[LordVenoc]

Here's my tests. One close loss and one solid win, but that win had some major luck on the side of the winners. I'll be interested in seeing at least one more game that tries to jack his stats as much as possible, but I'm not necessarily feeling the need for a bump here. Game 2 very much felt like an anomaly.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Midnighter
Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Midnighter, Puck, Captain America, Professor Zoom vs Mister Fantastic, Thing, Human Torch, Invisible Woman
Unit Summary
Damage: 12 wounds dealt total.
Abilities: Predictive Combat Rolls: 1-5 1, 6+ 2, 16+ 0, 21+ 1
Computed Response Damage: 2

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1 – Armies advance and Zoom gets a quick 2 wounds on IW.
Round 2 – Torch kills Zoom with two turns of flaming on. The Fan 4 move on and put 2 wounds on Cap. Midnighter circles around, scoring a 23 on Predictive Combat against Mr Fantastic and dealing 3 wounds. Thing fails to wound Cap, and Midnighter’s computed response deals three wounds to Mr. Fantastic (1 more than necessary), killing him. Puck wounds Thing with a normal hit, due to losing the move bonus from Midnighter when Fantastic died.
Round 3 – Torch puts 2 wounds on Cap with Flame On. Thing counter kills Cap with Rock Wall Defense, then puts 3 wounds on Puck. Midnighter rolls a 15, allowing him to put 2 wounds on IW. Puck bounces IW to her death, and fails to further wound anyone.
Round 4 – Midnighter rolls a 13, hitting Thing for 3 wounds. Flame On kills Puck, and puts 2 on Midnighter. Midnighter fails his roll, but puts the final 2 wounds on Thing anyway. Human Torch puts two on Midnighter with Flame On, but going Supernova proves to be all it takes, as Midnighter can’t use his Response, ending him.

Who won and how many wounds did they have? Fantastic 4 win. 4 wounds on Human Torch.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Midnighter, Star-Lord, Captain America, Nightcrawler (Darkholme) vs Joker (I), Black Mask (II), Carnage, Two-Face (II), Sandman (Baker)
Unit Summary
Damage: 12 wounds dealt
Abilities: Predictive Combat Rolls: 1-5 1, 6+ 1, 16+ 0, 21+ 0
Computed Response Damage: 1 (1 excess wound)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1 – Armies converge. Star Lord Snipes Black Mask for a wound. Two Face gets two wounds on Nightcrawler who BAMFed up to the Criminals.
Round 2 – Cap kicks things off with a wound on Black Mask. Star-Lord brings Midnighter forward with distracting fire. Nightcrawler botches his 6 defense dice, dying to Two Face. Midnighter doesn’t beat Carnage’s senses and Carnage and Two-Face get a wound each on Midnighter and Star-Lord.
Round 3 – Cap kills Black Mask. Midnighter kills Two Face. Joker moves up, but doesn’t do much.
Round 4 – Cap puts 3 wounds on Joker, who fails to hit back. Midnighter rolls big on his attack with 5 skulls, and Carnage fails to defend himself, dying. Midnighter, boosted by his Predictive Combat scores 6 skulls against Sandman’s 2 defense roll, dealing 4 wounds. Sandman tries to hit back, but a Computed Response leads to his downfall.
Round 5 – Cap kills Joker.

Who won and how many wounds did they have? Team Midnighter wins. 1 wound on Midnighter, 0 on Captain America, 2 on Star-Lord.

_____________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Midnighter is straight forward. While he’s at a disadvantage against the Insane, game 2 is evidence that if you goose his numbers enough, he can still crack through them. It was interesting to see Game 1 come down to that last special attack. Because Supernova is not targeting, Midnighter didn’t get his blank to shield, which would have saved him. Game 2 was very lucky. Lot of high skull rolls for Team Midnighter and a fair amount of whiffs. Midnighter only got attacked about 3 times the entire game, 2 of which were at range. The mix of Insane in their made him not get to roll too much, but the one he did get was helpful. The Insane very much died too fast, with Midnighter’s team repeatedly getting the kill from a defense whiff before they could do the damage they wanted.
GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I like the direction and am feeling good about him right now. The partnership with Puck is solid, but it can at times be hard to keep Midnighter engaged long enough to really give the movement bonus. Beyond that, it is clear that boosting his stats as much as possible can make him quite the force, but Criminals didn’t have the muscle to break past it once Carnage went down..

[IAmBatman]

I know Ronin hasn't done his thing yet, but some of the wording seems off to me here. Seems like the last part of Computed Response is unnecessarily mentioning targeting. Shouldn't it just follow Counter Strike verbiage?
In the first sentence of Computed Response, I think "any" could be "an."
For Brutality Boost, I don't think we've ever used the "named" verbiage. I'm thinking there's probably a more official-sounding way we can word that.
Interesting power set. Seems very specific to the character. I guess Insane people are too unpredictable for him or something?

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I know Ronin hasn't done his thing yet, but some of the wording seems off to me here. Seems like the last part of Computed Response is unnecessarily mentioning targeting. Shouldn't it just follow Counter Strike verbiage?
In the first sentence of Computed Response, I think "any" could be "an."
For Brutality Boost, I don't think we've ever used the "named" verbiage. I'm thinking there's probably a more official-sounding way we can word that.
Interesting power set. Seems very specific to the character. I guess Insane people are too unpredictable for him or something?

Yep. The Insanity makes the Combat computer unable to predict his attacks. I could definitely double check folks like Mera or Liberty Belle to try and get the right phrasing.

The "targeted" clause was essentially a compromise on the counterstrike component, allowing him to counter special attacks, but not ones like Explosions, Sonic Screams, Supernovas etc that don't actually specifically target him.

[johnny139]

The targeting stuff is because it also works on special attacks, and we're trying to limit the amount of weirdness there. Might be a better way to word it, but that's why it exists.

The Apollo shoutout could probably just be this:

BRUTALITY BOOST
While Midnighter is engaged, Operatives you control add 1 to their Move number and, if you control Apollo, he adds 1 to his Attack number.

Slightly different (as now non-Operative Apollos also get the boost), but I don't think the distinction is meaningful.

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by johnny139

The targeting stuff is because it also works on special attacks, and we're trying to limit the amount of weirdness there. Might be a better way to word it, but that's why it exists.

The Apollo shoutout could probably just be this:

BRUTALITY BOOST
While Midnighter is engaged, Operatives you control add 1 to their Move number and, if you control Apollo, he adds 1 to his Attack number.

Slightly different (as now non-Operative Apollos also get the boost), but I don't think the distinction is meaningful.

You could say Andrew Pulaski if you want to rule out folks like DC's actual deity Apollo (which there is a figure for). Precedent is somewhat there from Ocean Master, but it would be weird for him to use the real name and Apollo to stick with the Secret Identity on his reference.

[johnny139]

That's true - we alternate a bit depending on whether it's more the idea or the person. There's not really any other prominent comic Apollo worth designing, but secret identity is probably a good idea here anyways.

[Margloth]

Maybe these games are flukes, but I'm a bit concerned with this guy's level of power. 9 wounds against the Fantastic 4 is essentially killing 400-500 points worth of figures against an army that is tough to wound. Granted, Computed Response is a power that is especially brutal against F4 as it bypasses their defense and 3/4ths of the team have not particularly high attacks, but it still seems high.

Basically, this guy's defensive power is pretty brutal against any figure who rolls less than 6 attack dice, and his high life gives him the staying power to abuse that.

Speaking of which, why is his life so high? I get he's been 'augmented' and has accelerated healing, but most superheroes do and they don't have such high stats. 7 life puts him on par with Superman and Hulk. Doesn't seem appropriate (although admittedly I don't know much of the character). If he started as an average human and has an augmented healing factor/basic resistance, I'd max him out at 6 life.

I'd also consider dropping his attack by 1. Even with 4 attack, he'll be adding an automatic skull most of the time, which makes him basically have 6 attack. The defense reduction and power nerfing is just icing on the cake.

Long story short, this guy seems worth a lot more than 280-ish points and I definitely think there's some power creep going on here.

[IAmBatman]

The calculator comes up with 290 points for me.

If the Fan Four are falling due to Calculated Response, they're not being played well, IMO.

Both Mister Fantastic and Invisible Woman can disengage and attack from range, so unless someone like Blob is locking them down, they shouldn't be attacking him from an adjacent space. Human Torch doesn't have disengage, but does have range and likes to disengage anyway so he can use Flame On 4. Thing doesn't have range or disengage, but he's the one member of the team that should be able to hold up fine throwing adjacent attacks against Midnighter.

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by Margloth

Maybe these games are flukes, but I'm a bit concerned with this guy's level of power. 9 wounds against the Fantastic 4 is essentially killing 400-500 points worth of figures against an army that is tough to wound. Granted, Computed Response is a power that is especially brutal against F4 as it bypasses their defense and 3/4ths of the team have not particularly high attacks, but it still seems high.

He did have height for the entirety of his fight with Thing from what I recall. So that part of it was a case of unlucky dice for Thing, and that fight came after Invisible Woman died.

However, as I look back over it, I realize I missed his 3 wound hit on Thing in my total, so he did better against the Fan 4 than I had originally remembered, so your point is definitely valid.

Originally Posted by Margloth

Basically, this guy's defensive power is pretty brutal against any figure who rolls less than 6 attack dice, and his high life gives him the staying power to abuse that.

Speaking of which, why is his life so high? I get he's been 'augmented' and has accelerated healing, but most superheroes do and they don't have such high stats. 7 life puts him on par with Superman and Hulk. Doesn't seem appropriate (although admittedly I don't know much of the character). If he started as an average human and has an augmented healing factor/basic resistance, I'd max him out at 6 life.

It was decided to up the life in this way as a representation of the healing factor. Seeing as how I missed those wounds on the Fan 4 fight, I definitely could see doing this health drop by 1.

Originally Posted by Margloth

I'd also consider dropping his attack by 1. Even with 4 attack, he'll be adding an automatic skull most of the time, which makes him basically have 6 attack. The defense reduction and power nerfing is just icing on the cake.

Long story short, this guy seems worth a lot more than 280-ish points and I definitely think there's some power creep going on here.

I'd probably want to see a more range-heavy army before I commit to both of these changes. In both of my fights, he really wasn't getting outranged much, and when he did it hurt him pretty badly.

I would say adjusting the Life or Attack down 1 in response to the previous tests would be a good call before next test, but I don't know about both. Then again, there's a fairly stark difference between johnny's results and mine, as he never got his points worth in those and definitely did in mine (though game 2 was basically built around him, so I don't know how much I'd hold that against him).

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

The calculator comes up with 290 points for me.

If the Fan Four are falling due to Calculated Response, they're not being played well, IMO.

Both Mister Fantastic and Invisible Woman can disengage and attack from range, so unless someone like Blob is locking them down, they shouldn't be attacking him from an adjacent space. Human Torch doesn't have disengage, but does have range and likes to disengage anyway so he can use Flame On 4. Thing doesn't have range or disengage, but he's the one member of the team that should be able to hold up fine throwing adjacent attacks against Midnighter.

Only one hit by Calculated Response was Fantastic. So, that one would definitely be my bad on that one for forgetting he can disengage. The remaining wounds were all from his regular attacking.

EDIT: And given that that led to an early death for Mr. F, I'm thinking I'm going to rerun that test after I do that Kree Captain. I don't want my suboptimal move dragging him down too much. Can't control for luck, but can control for me being forgetful.

[IAmBatman]

Sounds reasonable to me. I'd go drop in life and run him back. I don't think he's as far off as his results might imply.