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  #85  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:19 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I personally think it was odd and less than ideal to:

1. Introduce so many new factions all at once including some that felt only mildly different than classic factions

2. Not have much continuation at all of classic factions, including those with only small factional buds that could've really used some love

3. Talk up the faction part of things soooo much in marketing when really the factions themselves don't make that much of a difference in gameplay

You could largely repeat these three points about the new Generals as well.

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  #86  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:23 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I think it was the stylistic differences referenced earlier and in other threads that put people off of these factions. They weren’t the pirate faction or the cyborg faction, they were all much more specific which in itself is a departure from the classic game.

As previous stated in this thread, the lore was a significant part of this relaunch and effort was made to explain the factions and their backgrounds, but when it comes down to what Heroscape is at its core (orcs, elves, robots, soldiers, aliens, samurai, etc.), the scope is broader than Ironclad Collective and Clockwork Combine.

It’s just a different aesthetic and an unnecessary one to a lot of folks.
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  #87  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:28 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I don’t think that had nearly as much impact as sticker shock in terms of the failure of the campaign.
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  #88  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:31 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I donít think that had nearly as much impact as sticker shock in terms of the failure of the campaign.
Totally agreed. It was just one more thing in a pile of things. I think ultimately most people were like "OK, cool, whatever" on the factions. There was just possibly a missed opportunity to engage the nostalgia market a bit more there.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #89  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:36 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I donít think that had nearly as much impact as sticker shock in terms of the failure of the campaign.
If youíre referring to my previous post, I donít either. I was explaining the issue with the factions that @nyys was having a hard time with.
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  #90  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:44 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I donít think that had nearly as much impact as sticker shock in terms of the failure of the campaign.
Totally agreed. It was just one more thing in a pile of things. I think ultimately most people were like "OK, cool, whatever" on the factions. There was just possibly a missed opportunity to engage the nostalgia market a bit more there.
Thatís how I see it too, not a deal breaker but a missed opportunity. I know I wasnít blown away with excitement the first time I scrolled down the page looking at the new units. The ones that got me the most excited were the stretch goals.
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  #91  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:45 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

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Originally Posted by Master Roshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I do not understand people who didn’t think this was Heroscape. It was. How on earth was it not? Did the card design really kill it that bad? The factions were all Heroscapey. Mind boggling.
For me it was Scape for sure, through and through. But I think the pretty significant change in aesthetic is what made it too unScape-like for some. I disagree but understand.

My bigger disagreement was with complaints about particular cards or factions, to say they weren’t Scape. You don’t have to like everything, but just about anything can fit into the game. I have plenty of classic figures that I rarely, if ever used because I simply don’t care for them. Doesn’t make them any less HeroScape.
Thats how I felt, I liked the designs and just felt like it was a new direction for Heroscape which was fine by me. I think it might have been too much new stuff all at once, but the particular designs and factions were fine with me.
Another direction could have been three or four new factions, and then the remaining characters are filled with miscellaneous stuff fitting older factions
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
I'm having a hard time understanding the issue some had with the factions. The game is littered with them. The Gruts are a faction, the Elves are a faction, Omnicrons, Knights, etc... The themes aside, was it because AoA had so much from a single faction all at once? Lack of variety? Better to have a small portion of each in a different iteration of a Master Set so we can talk about what each needs next?

Take Morsebane for instance, he and Sonlen, the original Elf magic wielders. For the longest time it was difficult to field him in an army since his main draw was an iffy Special Power and not much else. Placing OMs on him was kind of a waste, at least in a tourney map type setting. Then, the rest of the Elves came waves later with synergies to go with and suddenly Morsebane becomes more viable.

Was this the big issue with the factions? Too much at once? I just didn't see how it was any different than what we already had other than how they were going to be released.
Gruts = Utgar
Elves = Ullar
Omnicrons = Jandar
Knights = Jandar
Pirates = Three different Generals

I know there were other elves than those in Ullar and Hawthorne was Utgar but at the start of these factions...they were all one general and those generals made sense.
I think that may have been an issue with some and probably an underlying feeling of the change to aesthetics that some couldn't explain.

For my part, I've stated that if you're selling nostalgia, the product needs to be the same as it was, which includes similar cards, excellent designs, awesome sculpts and painted figures. A check on everything but the last...so it isn't Heroscape (the Heroscape of nostalgia).

If you're looking to start fresh...sell fresh, not just to us fans.

Just when you thought it was all right, someone made it alright.

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Last edited by AMIS; November 19th, 2022 at 10:46 AM. Reason: This wasn't you dad's Heroscape.
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  #92  
Old November 19th, 2022, 10:46 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Yep. And realizing within the first 24 hours that the stretch goals were hopelessly out of reach while simultaneously being the most appealing figures and characters was deflating to say the least.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #93  
Old November 19th, 2022, 11:46 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Great post campaign analysis by Sir Heroscape on YouTube. He stayed 100% positive throughout the campaign but in this video he lets his true feelings out and makes great observations about why it failed. Not super encouraging but kind of feels good to be validated by a like minded analysis of all that went wrong.

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  #94  
Old November 19th, 2022, 11:52 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

The original game had synergistic figure groups but they were never called "Factions" and they didn't overshadow the alliances to the Generals. And they didn't all come out at once.

It was just one more weird thing added to the game by someone who didn't get Heroscape to begin with.
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  #95  
Old November 19th, 2022, 12:55 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I don't mind having factions as an abstract idea in HS, but they never have been nor should be a marketed focus. If a faction happens to come about due to certain design decisions, that's great. But, as others have said, that's not at the forefront of what HS is as a game or as a product.

In retrospect, AoA leaned too hard in the wrong direction with this, and Vanguard was bloated with too many factions and too much faction identity. If AH wanted to have one or more factions highlighted in Vanguard, they should have echoed what SotM was: a "protagonist" group/faction (Drake, Raelin, Q10, Shiori, Sonlen) vs. an "antagonist" group/faction (Marro). AH could have had far more success in the nostalgia department if they had designed Vanguard to include a "protagonist" faction (updated SotM heroes and either the Clockwork Combine or the Dryans) vs. an "antagonist" faction (the Pirates). This would have been far more enticing to new players as well, being less bloated with a more focused narrative.

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  #96  
Old November 19th, 2022, 12:57 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post
Great post campaign analysis by Sir Heroscape on YouTube. He stayed 100% positive throughout the campaign but in this video he lets his true feelings out and makes great observations about why it failed. Not super encouraging but kind of feels good to be validated by a like minded analysis of all that went wrong.

click here
Great video! Definitely belongs here, thanks.
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