The Book of Batman (Jean-Paul Valley)

[johnny139]

The System Marker should probably be Red (same as on Azrael), and his base personality should be Determined. Still think it'd be weird for him to pal around with the Joker, but... I trust your judgment on that one. Not overly familiar with him.

[IAmBatman]

Ah, you reminded me that the personality in the SP should be Determined. Are you saying you prefer Conflicted to Determined, or to Insane?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by johnny139

The System Marker should probably be Red (same as on Azrael), and his base personality should be Determined. Still think it'd be weird for him to pal around with the Joker, but... I trust your judgment on that one. Not overly familiar with him.

Actually, Azrael is the reason I don't want it to be Red. For one, the Azbats suit is mostly not portrayed as red (but as blue or black - maybe we should go blue?), and for two, I figure the marker itself should feature the same image as the System Suppression marker, but I don't want the two confused in play, so it should have a different base color.

Does that make sense?

And, yeah, maybe bonding with Harley and the Arkham Inmates and Hugo Strange would be too much. Insane is technically correct (he hallucinates), but probably not the best theme in terms of gameplay.

We could go with Uncertain, but I feel like that's a bit too weak. What about Unstable? Or even Delusional?

[johnny139]

I don't see an issue with the two being the literal same marker, since they're only relevant on the individual cards. The Green Lanterns all use the same markers.

Unstable sounds fine. Delusional would be awesome; not a reuse but definitely sells the theme well. Explains it to those unfamiliar with the character.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I don't see an issue with the two being the literal same marker, since they're only relevant on the individual cards. The Green Lanterns all use the same markers.

Unstable sounds fine. Delusional would be awesome; not a reuse but definitely sells the theme well. Explains it to those unfamiliar with the character.

Fair point. Since the other one is just called a "red System Marker" I could totally see reusing the language here. Thanks for bringing that up. I'll update now.

I'm leaning towards Delusional on the personality. I don't mind going new when appropriate.

What do others think?

[quozl]

I was thinking Conflicted instead of Insane.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Actually, Azrael is the reason I don't want it to be Red. For one, the Azbats suit is mostly not portrayed as red (but as blue or black - maybe we should go blue?), and for two, I figure the marker itself should feature the same image as the System Suppression marker, but I don't want the two confused in play, so it should have a different base color.

Does that make sense?

And, yeah, maybe bonding with Harley and the Arkham Inmates and Hugo Strange would be too much. Insane is technically correct (he hallucinates), but probably not the best theme in terms of gameplay.

We could go with Uncertain, but I feel like that's a bit too weak. What about Unstable? Or even Delusional?

You could go with Unstable like Moon Knight. He technically could have been Insane with his multiple personality issues, but as with this guy, we didn't want him palling around with Joker and co.

But Delusional works too if that's seems more appropriate to his type of insanity. I don't know him from a hole in the ground, so you have a better idea for that.

[Scapemage]

I like Delusional or Unstable over Insane in this case. I also think that the marker should be kept red, as it also lightens the load on people buying markers.

[IAmBatman]

I think I'm going to go Delusional here. It was close, but johnny's reaction to Delusional helps sell me on that direction.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think we're afraid the synergies might be a bit too neat (and unthematic) so we're going to change to a different personality there (Delusional, probably).

And, yeah, caught that personality error already, but thank you!

Good call on restricting The System to normal attacks. That'll be cleaner for sure.

I'll take a look at Flash and Jubilee for the wording on the Shuriken power. Good reference point, thanks!

Originally Posted by davidlhsl

Batman (Jean Paul George Ringo)

Insane is going to give him some neat synergies.

The System
Hmmm, there seems to be an error in the Personality, as you already list him as Insane.

Would he be able to use his special attack when forced to attack adjacent figures, or is the default interpretation that it must be normal attacks?

I didn't think to ask this about Azrael because he doesn't have range, but suppose he rolls a 3 and there are no adjacent figures. He's prevented from moving, but could he still launch his Shurikens?

Shuriken Launcher Special Attack
Flash and Jubilee indicate you start the attack with the dice instead of starting the turn. Oh, wait. Maybe this answers my previous question -- you might indicate starting the turn to allow using the Shurikens when forced to attack via The System. You wouldn't want him to load up on dice with each attack, although he is prevented from attacking the same figure more than once. However, if he is permitted to strike with Shurikens during the System and he destroys all adjacent figures, could he strike at range with any remaining dice?

If he's engaged, I'm thinking he'd have to attack the engaged figures and destroy them before choosing a figure he isn't engaged with, with or without The System.

Bat-Grapple 3
Vetted!

Final Thoughts
Love the Shuriken Launcher, and getting him into the thick of the opponent's army and unleashing The System can be a wild ride. Well, maybe not for your opponent.

It might be best to restrict the System's forced attacks to be normal, as it seems that permitting the special attack might create complications. That's assuming I'm not my usual wonky self in interpreting these abilities.

Hmm, I think you've sold me on a return to the defensive boost!

And, yeah, good catch on listing him as Insane. We caught that one too, fortunately. That said, we're probably going to move away from the Insane synergies here anyhow.

Fwiw, we've revised the Robin language to prevent bonding with additional figures, not just Sidekicks. This issue came up previously with Deadpool, Jubilee, Armor, and Harley Quinn.

The lack of Super Strength here is intentional. Azrael is a metahuman whose Super Strength only unlocked after his time as Batman. So he never really displayed it as Batman at all.

Thanks!
Bats

Originally Posted by Margloth

I playtested Azrael back in the day, and I remember needing the System marker to boost his defense (5 d with 4 lives doesnt hold up long), or because +1 attack means a lot more with double attack (especially since if he inflicted a wound, he gets a chance at an additional). Without the defense boost here, I think I would be much less likely to use it, since I'd probably almost exclusively use the multi attack, ranged special attack and wouldn't get much use out of an additional normal attack die and the range would make up for the lack of move.

Curiously, I'd only use the System in this case if I was using him in an Insane army (speaking of which, you've listed his normal personality as Insane ).

I think that brings up another point: would this Batman, using the System, be able to activate both Harley Quinn and a Robin? I'd have to re-read Harley's card, but I know Robins just won't let you take additional turns with sidekicks. That would be kind of cool, but probably not intentional and maybe kind of messy.

Azrael also has Superstrength, which Batman here is missing.

Looks like an interesting evolution.

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Based on the wording of The System, shouldn't his class be listed on the card as Determined?

Wording in The System at the end sounds a little odd, why would you specify that he has to attack them exactly one time? You might also want to specify that he is using his normal attack for that or it might get confusing if they try to use his special attack and don't have enough dice to make all the required attacks.

Everything else looks good, I like the fresh take on
Batman.

The System wording is based very much on The System Suppression for Azrael. I agree that it should be restricted to normal attacks to avoid wonkiness. Definitely making that change.

And, yeah, we spotted the personality issue as well and will definitely clean it up.

Thanks for the feedback!

Cheers,
Bats

[IAmBatman]

SP fully updated based on ERB comments.

[Margloth]

Post ERB suggestions:

Why even bother with the personality change at all? Neither has any Synergy, right? I understand the thematic reason, but it seems to add a level of complexity that could probably be avoided by simply choosing a "middle ground" personality (maybe Ruthless or Aggressive?).