C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

[caps]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

That's why I said +SOMETHING but you can basically take anything (any melle qsuad with decent defense I mean)as a screen and you'll win most of times against Stingers, with no Ralein, no long range support, nothing.

When the SOMETHING is Drow or any other C+ squad?

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

When the SOMETHING is Drow or any other C+ squad?

Yes, even blade Gruts with no Champion.

[dok]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

Yeah, they are reasonable builds but they are ideal matchups. Even switch them around, with TS/Krav/Raelin vs. M43s and Stingers vs. TS/Warden, and the results are 2 losses for the Skeletons. It's just not a good comparison.

I'm not so sure. I think Rae/Krav/tombies probably beats the M-43 build, although that's less of a useful comparison in my mind because I've got 180 points of A/A+ and 160 points of B-/C+ going up against a B build, so I'd expect the former to win.

21 5 move, 3 defense melee squaddies with flanking probably lose to 15 stingers, but it's not a sure thing. It depends a lot on the map. That said, the reverse of the above applies. I expect the A build to beat the B- build even if the matchup isn't ideal.

[betawolf36]

Personally I think the Skeletons rank is rightly deserved. Contrary to what you may believe, they perform okay against Romans. They just need the right support units. Death Knights+ Skull Demons comes to mind.

Lacking much of a defensive force however it is best to just attack and attack and attack. Generally give little regard to how many are lost. A swarm of skeletons can outlast with numbers.

[Sir Yeshua]

Spider-Poison's definition of the B range:

Units in the B range have all the tools necessary to give you some control over the game and your own fate, but there are often better ways to spend your points. They may have some rather favorable matchups against a few top armies, but will struggle a lot with others.

(Emphasis mine)

Comparing them to the squads in both the B- and C+ rankings, I really get the feeling that the Tomb Skeletons are like a B-- or a C++.

They're certainly easier to use than MacDirks and more versatile than Drow. However, I don't think they're quite on par with the rest of the B- units for one reason: Efficiency.

An order marker on the Tomb Skeletons doesn't get you much. They don't bond like Armoc Vipers, don't have the survivability of Gorillanators against commons, and at only three members to a squad, it's hard to swarm with them. Most of the 'swarm' armies either allow you to move a ton of figures, (like Zombies and Ashigaru), or have bonding heroes who allow you to get five or more attacks in per turn. They're cheap, but unless you're using some expensive Heroes, they will clog your start zone.

Which leads me to think that they are good in two army builds: Death Knights/Skull Demons, (Thanks for the idea, betawolf36!), or as what I'll call a 'active screen.'

Basically, my theory is that you pair them with something that can take the heat (ie Vulcanmech Incendiborgs), and put most of your order markers on the Tomb Skeletons having them swarm while the Vulcanmechs lay down some covering fire.

Is this the easiest way to win? No. That's why they're a B-. They're more of a fun squad than a competitive squad. Maybe they should be bumped down to a C+. But ultimately, I think they fall right in the exact midpoint between the two, making it dok's call. And in this case, he called B-.

P.S. dok, you have the Deathstalkers listed twice in the alphabetical listing. You need to delete the one under C+. There's also a gap under fylorlag spiders in the same list.

[RAGNAROK]

Hey guys. I'm pretty new here so I apologize if I'm missing the obvious. I've been reading up on all the customs. I saw that Brimstone isn't included in this list...at least I don't think he is. I'm wondering if there's a reason or if there are other VC's that aren't here, and if so, why?

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by RAGNAROK

Hey guys. I'm pretty new here so I apologize if I'm missing the obvious. I've been reading up on all the customs. I saw that Brimstone isn't included in this list...at least I don't think he is. I'm wondering if there's a reason or if there are other VC's that aren't here, and if so, why?

A lot of the newer VC figures haven't been in enough tournaments to find an appropiate ranking.

[dok]

Only that I don't really have a clear sense of how strong he is. I'm not sure I've seen him used in tournament play yet.

[caps]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

A lot of the newer VC figures haven't been in enough tournaments to find an appropiate ranking.

Yup.

As one of the Judges who tested Brimstone, I would put him at roughly C+/B- in Tournament-style play. He is very tricky to play and very swingy. Played aggressively he can do great or awful--played conservatively he can sometimes be more effective, but if you want to play conservatively you're better off with some other figure.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Yup.

As one of the Judges who tested Brimstone, I would put him at roughly C+ in Tournament play.

Yep. B-/C+. He really needs the Greenscales in his army or he's up to be the shooting gallery, not in it.

[RAGNAROK]

I see. Thanks!

[Foudzing]

Cathars Spearmen have the same rank as Arashara...

Please change this horrible thing, it burns my eyes.

Ashara should be B- or C+.
Cathars should be at least A-.

Capt John Varan too high need to be lower.
I feel the Nnah Scirh a bit too low A- should be their rank the change the metagame a lot.
Command Courrier way too high. I watched games with them in played by good players. Seems that all they do is running around, not worthing 35points piece...

You need also to reconsider the wolves of Badru.
Morgoloth is just the strongest bonding hero ever (better than dragons) double attack at 4 good survavibility usefull aura at 5 hex (really easy to use with the bonding so it's like all your wolves have disengage) for only 140 points.
Paired with the special attacks of the wolves you have a damn crazy fire power the best in the game I would say.
I saw a lot the wolves in action and I feel than can completely compete with B/B+ squads. They still strugle with high defense figures but otherwise they're really really good.