C3G Legacy LibraryThis is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.
zeekthefreak already got back to me, but he didn't follow our playtesting rules at all. I let him know about our rules and standards and gave him a bunch of links, so we'll see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeekthefreak
okay so we played a 400 point battle,
my team: kravs, syvarris, and black bat.
brothers team: dw 9000, air borne, agent carr, and tarns.
He won initiative and failed the drop. Sent out agent carr, I then moved syvarris and inflicted 1 wound. He moved the tarns and rolled sucessfully twice (lucky) he inflicted 3 wounds I then took anoter turn with syvarris but he only killed one. They went and mowed syvarris down. I then moved black bat in the middle of them and killed them all with fists of fury. He got initiative and dropped he killed a krav and I returned by killing one. He moved agent carr and swung with 7 attack which bat managed to block. Bat then got height on carr and killed him in one round. He then took revenge by engaging the rest of the kravs and killing them. I moved bat and failed to trash dw 9000. Next round I lose initiative again Dw shot at me and I blocked. Next I attacked and failed. My opponent then moved the airborne who were out of range. I attacked twice more and finally killed dw 9000. My brother fired at me and I dogde. I moved in for the kill he inflicted two wounds but one failed and I counter striked. I then walked in between them and killed them.
winner me
survivors black bat, 1-2 lives
Yes/No: yes
thanks for letting me playtest, it was a fun experience.
Zeek
Orang's tests. A little bit concerning, but I don't really want to bump her points like Orang suggested. Maybe we should consider switching to Furious Assault and 4 attack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang
Here's test one! I'm thinking about going for a Martian Manhunter II build vs the X-Men for the next one.
Name Of The Playtest Unit: Black Bat
Army Test 1 Map: Island Plane Crash (no glyphs) Armies:
Black Bat, Batman (vI), Robin (Tim Drake), Huntress, Alfred Pennyworth (800 points)
vs.
2x Street Thugs, The Hood, Black Mask, Tombstone, Doctor Octopus (805 points)
Spoiler Alert!
Overview of Black Bat’s performance: Damage inflicted through normal attacks: 1 Street Thug killed, 2 wounds on Tombstone.
Defensive Premonition activated four times.
Damage inflicted through Defensive Premonition - 3 wounds on Doctor Octopus.
Two extra attacks from Fists of Fury.
Note: Black Bat starts the game with the Bat-Grapnel.
Round One
The Vigilantes claim the initiative, and Batman and Robin advance up the western flank, taking cover in the jungle.
Four Street Thugs advance up the western flank, taking cover by the Jungle Brushes. The Hood follows them, also taking cover.
Batman grapples up to the top of the plane, chucking Batarangs at two Street Thugs and The Hood - one Thug was taken out. Robin grappled up to the plane, throwing another batarang at a thug, taking him down.
The Hood activates his Cloak of Dormamu, flying to the top of the plane, entering melee combat with Batman and Robin, and firing two shots at Tim Drake, inflicting a wound with the second bullet, and doesn’t turn into a demon. Doc Ock runs forwards lashing at Bruce Wayne with his four telescopic tentacles from the bottom of the plane, too low to be in engagement with him. Batman takes two wounds from the Doctor’s assault.
Batman moves slightly lower down the plane, punching the German scientist in the face, but failing to hurt him. Robin grapples next to Batman, while still remaining on the same level of the plane and in engagement with The Hood, before punching him, inflicting a wound.
The Hood fires a shot at Batman, but the Bat knocks the gun out of his hands and retaliates with an Evasive Strike, inflicting a wound. The second bullet he fires at Bruce misses its target.
Round Two
The Criminals claim the initiative, and the Hood fires two bullets at Batman, one shot being deflected, the other countered for a wound.
Alfred extracts Batman from the front line, healing a wound.
The Hood fires two shots at Robin, the second bullet inflicts a wound. Doc Ock climbs to the top of the plane, and lashes at Robin from afar with his tentacles - only two were required to rip him apart.
Batman is healed by Alfred before running forward, throwing Batarangs at the Hood and Doc Ock from the bottom of the plane, but failing to hurt either one.
It’s the Street Thugs’ turn now, (as I thought the Hood would be dead .), and so they bond with the Hood, firing at Batman. The first shot was 4 skulls - dead centre, possibly fatal - but Batman dodges aside, throwing a batarang at the Hood, which knocks him out. Four Street Thugs advance, one to the west, three to the east. The one to the west fires a shot at the Batman, who, once again, dodges and counters, knocking the Street Thug out.
Batman grapples into engagement with Doc Ock, being locked down by his tentacles, and punches him in the face, inflicting a wound.
Round Three
The Criminals claim the initiative, and Doc Ock lashes at the Batman, inflicting three wounds on the Vigilante with his tentacles.
Batman retaliates, but his strike fails to hurt Doc Ock.
With just one tentacle, Octavius rips out Batman’s throat, eliminating the Vigilantes’ entire round.
Doc Ock runs down the plane’s wing to the south-east.
Round Four
The Criminals claim the initiative, and Doc Ock continues to advance, perching on the tip of the plane’s wing, lashing at Black Bat from range and height. The first tentacle strikes for four skulls, but Cassandra’s Defensive Premonition kicks in, and she rolls four shields, blocking the strike. Presumably rocked by this, Doc Ock’s second tentacle goes wild, rolling only one skull - the Defensive Premonition kicks in, and Black Bat retaliates, inflicting two wounds. The third tentacle strikes for three skulls, and the Defensive Premonition fails - the tentacle hits Black Bat in the chest, knocking her for one wound. The fourth strike rolls four skulls - Defensive Premonition succeeds, but she still takes a wound from the strike - she’d probably have died were it not for the Premonition.
Black Bat grapples behind Doc Ock, striking him - three skulls, he blocks. Second strike goes wild - no skulls.
Doc Ock strikes her with one of his tentacles, rolling one skull - her Defensive Premonition kicks in, and she retaliates, killing him, and annihilating the Criminals’ last turn.
Black Bat runs up the plane’s wing, and onto its body.
Black Bat charges forwards, punching a Street Thug from height, killing him with ease.
Round Five
The Criminals claim the initiative (again!), and Tombstone advances.
Black Bat engages Tombstone from height, striking him despite his intimidation. First strike, 4 skulls - Tombstone was knocked hard, taking two wounds. Fists of Fury, second strike - one skull, easily blocked.
Tombstone circles Cassandra, claiming height, and striking Black Bat - three skulls, no Defensive Premonition, and he crushes her head in his hands, eliminating the rest of his opponents’ round.
Tombstone advances.
Round Six
The Criminals (again!) claim the initiative, and Tombstone charges down off the plain and onto the beach, striking Huntress. He rolls two skulls, but she fails to block and is badly hurt, but retaliates with deadly efficiency, killing him with a three skull counterstrike, and eliminating his entire round.
Huntress rushes up the wing.
She rushes further up, onto the body of the plain, and fires two bolts at a Street Thug - it embeds in his throat, killing him.
She rushes to the northern wing, shooting another Thug at point blank range, shattering his skull and piercing his brain with her crossbow bolt. She fires another shot at Black Mask, from extreme range, inflicting a wound.
Round Seven
The Vigilantes claim the initiative (at last!), and Huntress charges forwards, firing two bolts at Black Mask at point-blank range from the tip of the northern wing. The first bolt is blocked, the second embeds in his chest, inflicting two wounds.
Black Mask fires a shot at Huntress, inflicting a wound. The two remaining Street Thugs gather around him, and open fire - one shot misses, and one is blocked. Both Thugs are executed by Black Mask for their failure.
Huntress fires one final bolt, straight through Roman Sionis’s head, to end the battle.
Vigilantes victorious - Huntress 3 wounds, Alfred Pennyworth unwounded.
Overview: That was more fun than I'd expected, close and brutal. Black Bat was pretty deadly, especially with Defensive Premonition, but I feel like that was helped by going up against Doctor Octopus - I think she's a surprisingly good counter to him, due to him attacking her from short range with multiple low power attacks, the perfect type for Defensive Premonition to counter (which is good, since Octavius is normally a bit of a pain in the arse).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang
And here's the rest!
- Theme Test -Inconclusive, seeing as I don’t know the character, but nothing felt wrong and it felt like an older version of her Batgirl design, so I'd say it was probably a pass. - Mirror Test - Pass - Bonding Test - Pass - Vigilante synergies are no issue. - Synergies Test - Pass - See above - Power Check - Tentative Pass - She's certainly pretty damn powerful at times. Though you may get lucky and kill her quickly, if luck's on her side she really is a force to be reckoned with! I'd be inclined to up her points by 10 (which would also help with my concerns that she overshadows Black Canary a bit). Power implication check, though - do oyu want her to be able to use Fists of Fury when throwing her Bat Shurikens? It's no big deal, very unlikely to happen and requires some form of attack boost to even have a chance and an easy fix to Fists of Fury's wording if you don't, but I thought it should be mentioned. - Fun Test - Definite Pass! I loved Defensive Premonition on her Batgirl variation, and it's great to see it on a stronger figure, and added to that, Fists of Fury is also lots of fun, and Utility Belt adds an element of choice and adaptability at the start of the game, even if only a slight one. She may be my favourite Vigilante right now - I had a blast playing her. - Fun Competitive Test - Pass - Unless all the luck really is with her, but you can say that about most figures. Neither game was a walk-over, even though she seemed to be performing at some of her best, so that should tell you something. - Drafting Test - Pass - Definitely, she's strong, fun and has great synergies. - Usage Test - Pass - All powers were useful at times, though I feel like the Bat Shurikens in Test Two were a mistake - she’d have been better off with Smoke Pellets, I’m fairly sure. - Strategy Test - Pass - Her powers play in a very interesting way, and thinking how to counter her to get past Defensive Premonition, how to make the most out of that and Fists of Fury when playing her adds a great deal of strategy to the game - and let’s not forget the choice of what Utility Glyph to take with her.
Army Test 2 Map: Invasion (No Glyphs) Armies;
Black Bat, Martian Manhunter (vII), Starman (Jack Knight), Hawkgirl (1,005 points)
vs.
Professor X, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Iceman, Beast, Angel (1,000 points)
Spoiler Alert!
Overview of Black Bat’s performance:
Damage inflicted through normal attacks: 3 wounds on Iceman.
Defensive Premonition activated three times.
Damage inflicted through Defensive Premonition - none.
Two extra attacks from Fists of Fury.
Black Bat starts the game with Bat-Shurikens
Round One
The X-Men claim the initiative, and Professor X commands Angel to fly Cyclops forwards up the northern flank. Scott claims a height 4 perch and fires at Cassandra - the strike rolls two skulls, and Black Bat fails her Defensive Premonition, taking a wound.
J’onn flies to the other level 4 perch to the north, striking Cyke from a slight range - he rolls three skulls, and Summers fails utterly to defend, taking the full force from thee blow. Angel responds by flying him out of the way.
Summers claims the level four perch to the south, with J’onn to in a direct line and at extreme range. He fires in his general direction with his Eye Beam Special Attack, but J’onn blocks it entirely. Iceman ice slides up the southern flank.
Black Bat advances up the southern flank, taking her position by a Jungle Brush, flinging a Bat Shuriken at Cyclops from low ground, but it misses entirely.
Cyclops makes another Eye Beam shot in Martian Manhunter’s direction, and J’onn takes the shot right in the chest, receiving two wounds. Iceman moves to a space 6 spaces from Black Bat and opens fire on her from height - he rolls one skull and she gets Defensive Premonition, you guess what happens.
J’onn activates his Telepathic Link before flying up to Cyclops and punching him in the face from lower ground, knocking him right out and prompting Angel to fly back, before commanding Black Bat forwards. She rushes up to Iceman, and strikes her from lower ground. She rolls three skulls, and Bobby takes a wound from the strike - maintaining the initiative, she strikes again, with four skulls, inflicting two wounds. The momentum is overwhelming, and her third strike hits for three skulls, finishing Iceman off.
Round Two
The X-Men claim the initiative, and Angel flies Jean up to southern flank. Jean picks Black Bat up, flinging her into the swamp, where she takes a wound from the throw, and striking her from range - 2 skulls, and despite Defensive Premonition, 1 shield.
Martian Manhunter strikes Jean from extreme range and height, inflicting two wounds, and prompting Angel to fly Xavier forwards.
Jean attempts to fling Cassandra, but fails, before shooting her - the four skull attack is too much, despite Defensive Premonition, and Black Bat falls. Beast leaps forwards.
Starman takes on Black Bat’s mantle, flying south, but he is at the far north.
Jean moves into melee with Martian Manhunter, striking him from height, but he defends.Beast rushes into combat with J’onn, inflicting a wound.
The Martian drains a JL Marker, before striking Jean, which she blocks, but it prompts Angel to fly Charles forwards. Starman flies into engagement with Beast, striking him, inflicting two wounds.
Round Three
The X-Men claim the initiative (again!), and Jean tries to fling Starman - she does so so that he remained adjacent to Beast, and now to the Professor, but was unhurt. She strikes the Martian from height, inflicting a wound. Beast strikes out at J’onn and Starman - the attack on the Martian is blocked, while he rolls 4 skulls against Starman, prompting Mr. Knight to activate his Force Field.
The Martian drains another JL Marker, attacking Jean and rolling four skulls - Professor, protective of his student, blocks the attack. This gives Starman the opportunity to strike Xavier freely now - the devastating 5 skull attack leaves the Professor near death at 3 wounds. Angel flies the Professor away.
Jean tries to fling Starman, but fails, and strikes the Martian for two wounds. Hank finishes J’onn off before turning on Jack, inflicting a wound.
Starman reluctantly steps up after J’onn’s defeat, flying away and risking a leaving engagement from Beast, which he takes and fights through, and shoots Professor Charles Xavier, knocking him out, eliminating the X-Men’s last turn. Angel flies up to deny the last southern height four perch from the Justice League.
Hawkgirl flies towards the front lines, but cannot reach them yet.
Round Four
The Justice League claims the initiative for the first time, and Hawkgirl swoops into combat, knocking Mr. McCoy out with a 5 skull attack, before turning on Jean, striking her as well, but only with a pathetic 1 skull - easily blocked. With the fall of Beast, The X-Men lose their second turn.
Jean flings Hawkgirl to the side, still in combat with her, but Hawkgirl is unhurt by the impact. Jean strikes Hawkgirl, but Shakar blocks the blow.
Hawkgirl strikes Jean hard, knocking her backwards three spaces, but failing to hurt her.
Hawkgirl risks a leaving engagement strike from Angel, which she takes, and flies across to Jean, striking her with a heavy attack of nine from height. Only three skulls are rolled, and Jean only takes one wound.
Jean moves to equal height with Hawkgirl, failing to chuck her, and striking her but failing to hurt or knock her backwards.
Round Five
The X-Men claim the initiative, and Jean attempts to chuck Hawkgirl, but fails, before striking her with a hard, four skull attack - Hawkgirl takes three wounds, and is knocked back into a jungle brush, but, thankfully, the thorns do not finish her off.
Hawkgirl strikes Jean with one skull, which is blocked with ease.
Thinking Jean would have fallen by now, Angel flies forwards to punch Hawkgirl on the chin, knocking her out. That’s right - Hawkgirl was knocked out by Angel. Oddly humiliating.
Starman reluctantly steps up, flying into melee with Jean, finishing her off.
Angel strikes Starman, but the blow is blocked with ease.
Starman strikes Angel, inflicting a wound.
Round Six
Starman claims the initative, blasting Angel hard, inflicting two wounds.
Warren Worthington III punches Jack Knight, but is blocked.
One last strike, and Starman knocks Angel out.
Justice League Victorious, 2 wounds on Starman.
Overview: Another really fun, close battle! Black Bat's Defensive Premonition was less useful this time, both because her defensive rolls were often fairly poor and because the X-Men were careful to remain out of counterstrike range when attacking her - I wonder if I should have given her the Smoke Pellets, that would certainly help her with that weakness. What we did see in this game is the potential power of Fists of Fury - her luck was insane with her assault on Iceman, and it was an awesome moment, but I doubt it is indicative of how she'll normally play.
Thoughts On The Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, & Draftibility:
Honestly, most of what I said is at the top - I really, really like her, and found her to be insane amounts of fun to play. I wouldn’t really want her changed other than, most likely, a small points bump.
Yeah the problem is that if she really is too high there nothing really to cut. DP9 shouldn't get adjusted since DP9 is where she is at on Batgirl. Everything else is on par with Batgirl with the exception of 1 additional attack but an attack of 4 would mean Fist of Fury would rarely get used.
How'd she feel when you played her. Don't want to overreact if it's just one play tester. She may have just had a good run with her. The good news is LO seems to have loved playing her.
Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
What if Fist of Fury was renamed and adjusted slightly downward. Roll 4 att. dice instead of 5, keep attacking if 2 or more skulls are rolled instead of 3.
I don't see anything super concerning yet. Couple of decent wins and solid performances, neither of the armies she faced were powerhouses. I'd be fine with Furious Assault and 4 Attack though, to keep her cost from going too high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking
What if Fist of Fury was renamed and adjusted slightly downward. Roll 4 att. dice instead of 5, keep attacking if 2 or more skulls are rolled instead of 3.
".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
What if Fist of Fury was renamed and adjusted slightly downward. Roll 4 att. dice instead of 5, keep attacking if 2 or more skulls are rolled instead of 3.
Well then...problem solved. I should have known that since he is in more than a few of our games...
Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
I don't see anything super concerning yet. Couple of decent wins and solid performances, neither of the armies she faced were powerhouses. I'd be fine with Furious Assault and 4 Attack though, to keep her cost from going too high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking
What if Fist of Fury was renamed and adjusted slightly downward. Roll 4 att. dice instead of 5, keep attacking if 2 or more skulls are rolled instead of 3.
lol. Glad to know we are all talking about the same thing here. The power name Furious Assault didn't ring a bell for me. Seems like a good solution then. I'd say have the next tester run tests that way then so we can figure out what her price would be with that change.
Based on mine and Orang's games I do worry she'll land at 200, so I'm leaning towards switching to 4 attack, Furious Assault, and dropping her points to 180 just to play things on the safe side.
I'd be in favor of the drop here. She already felt like she was pushing on the ceiling of thematic powerlevel, so I think we should be sensitive to results in that direction.
June 25th, 2016, 06:46 PM
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