C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

[Foudzing]

Hello guys.

With the viable Repulsors Omnicrons, Quahon and now the Nnah Scirh Cultists, I feel the Q9's rank should really be reviewed.

I don't think he deserve this rank now because only the Q9+rats combo made him A+ (alonside with his 4-life 7 defense ) and this combo got nerfed with the 3 units I named before.

It also depends how you define "A+" but to me Raelin and the rats are a step beyond Q9.
There is more distance between Raelin and Q9 than there is between Q9 and Nilf/Quahon/VI/Kravs

The rats and Raelin are still A+ to me, but I don't really mind it, because they are A+ only if you play them well, and the rats and Rae are not the easiest figures to play by far.

I still don't understand why Quahon is A and Nilfheim is A-, Quahon is more versatile, also the Raelin+Greenscale+Dragon combo is more efficient with Quahon than Nilfheim. Quahon needs a A.

I also feel may be Morgoloth is underestimated whereas Mok and Racheim are overestimated, but maybe too soon to be sure.

And you should pull the gnids at least one letter down, no one takes them in tournament and they still don't have done anything.
In same case: Arashara, Capt. John Varan, skelletons of Annelithia (not really sure for these one tho).

Rest is okay to me.

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Hello guys.

With the viable Repulsors Omnicrons, Quahon and now the Nnah Scirh Cultists, I feel the Q9's rank should really be reviewed.

I don't think he deserve this rank now because only the Q9+rats combo made him A+ (alonside with his 4-life 7 defense ) and this combo got nerfed with the 3 units I named before.

It also depends how you define "A+" but to me Raelin and the rats are a step beyond Q9.
There is more distance between Raelin and Q9 than there is between Q9 and Nilf/Quahon/VI/Kravs

The rats and Raelin are still A+ to me, but I don't really mind it, because they are A+ only if you play them well, and the rats and Rae are not the easiest figures to play by far.

I'm not sure it was *just* Rae+Rats that made Q9 epic, because (as you point out) he's an epic piece anyways. Really, I think any good screen cold work with Q9 and he'd still be a right terror.

Q9+Raelin is devastation at its best. One could argue that the Goblin Cutters en masse would be a sufficent way to counteract the whole Omnicron Repulsor issue.

[dok]

Updated, finally.

Tyrian goes from B- to B, and Dividers go from A- to B+. No new comments on either.

Blurbs of everything else that changed or was added are quoted below.

Originally Posted by dok

Augamo: A wrecking ball who blasts past screening figures to get at those pesky MRSAHs (multiple ranged special attack heroes). B+
Cathar Spearmen - Tough on melee, particularly non-bonding melee, but their numbers, toughness, and reach make them effective in a wide range of situations. B+
Count Raymond: While he's often little more than a discount Marcus for a spearman army, the Maneuver power can be handy at times. B+
Cxurg'gyath: 6 life is nice, but this guy is more of a dungeon scenario figure than a competitive double-blind figure. C
Dreadgul Raiders - Similar to the Deathchasers, these guys have an interesting array of bonding options and the potential to hit hard. B+
Eilan Sidhe: Basically impossible to rank. A solid A on a tree-heavy map, warm bodies for the slaughter on a map without them. B-
Guilty McCreech: The Me-Burq-Sa of the Dreadguls. B+
Hoplitron: Large & Soulborg immunities a high defense, and a handy ability to move figures makes them attractive, but Hoplitron builds still suffer from slow movement and a too few attacks. B
Jotun: Still a ton of points and leaves you wishing for more commons, but he's a heck of a lot better with some Dreadguls backing him up. B-
Kursus: Great if Sonic Fists finds a pile of low-defense figures to plunge into, but a bit too fragile to do that consistently. B
Marro Gnids - Cheap, fast, and nasty against low-defense heroes, but die very quickly against range or commons. B-
Microcorp Troopers: They're a 4 figure ranged squad, and they can toss in a high-damage ranged special each turn. Do you need to know more? A-
Nhah Scirh Cultists: In many battles the feel like (slightly faster) Heavy Gruts who don't bond. But against special attackers in general and Dragons in particular, these guys are brutal. B+
Siiv: A cheap filler hero who is great against some high defense figures but is usually going down quickly. B
Tomb Skeletons: Their powers are nice but not enough to keep many competitve armies from hacking through these guys at great speed. B-
Tomoe Gozen: Tricky to use but makes playing the unique Samurai squads together much more attractive. B-
Zombies of Morindan - With so much undead in the game, the zombies have more and more bad matchups. B

[greygnarl]

Nilfheim is at least as good as Quahon, and imo better. Let me break it down.

4 Defense 6 Life is better than 3 Defense 7 life. This is the big one.

185 points is better than 190 pts.

You say that Quahon is good because even if you get a bad roll on LBSA you can engage Greenscales to the opponent's figures as protection. Well with Nilfheim you can also engage Greenscales to the figures he doesn't kill, and on average, Nilfheim and Quahon do the same amount of damage with their specials.

Assuming that Greenscales are used properly, it is easier to deny Quahon 3 targets.
(Hi Arch)

What does Quahon have? A longer threat range, which only matters becasue people do not yet know how to spread figures effectively.

___________________________________________

As for the new rankings. Augamo is not a B+, he needs to go down. Ramming is a massive nerf.

Tomb Skeletons suck, I'd put them at a C+.

[Arch-vile]

Awesome, dok!

Remember that Quahon has the wonderful ability to attack 3 figures while engaged, while Nilfheim cannot.

Augamo's ranking surprised me, as did Tomoe Gozen's. I expected them to each be a B. Augamo can be brutal with a skilled player using Ramming and Tomoe Gozen is more antimelee to an antimelee army, so it makes sense when I think about it.

[dok]

Originally Posted by greygnarl

Augamo is not a B+, he needs to go down. Ramming is a massive nerf.

Compared to what? It's worse than Knockback on lava maps, for sure. On other maps, I'd much rather have ramming, which triggers almost twice as often and doesn't give my opponents that much flexibility on placement.

Originally Posted by greygnarl

Tomb Skeletons suck, I'd put them at a C+.

B- is already pretty bad. At C+, they're competing against Agent Carr and his ilk. Would you pick Carr to beat 8 tomb skeletons?

[greygnarl]

I've used Augamo once. After a few turns, I started wishing that Ramming wasn't mandatory. That should tell you all you need to know.

As for the Tomb Skeletons, obviously they will beat Carr 1v1, but that's not a fair comparison. I can think of many more situations where I would want Agent Carr than Tomb Skeletons.

[awesomeunleashed]

Originally Posted by greygnarl

I've used Augamo once. After a few turns, I started wishing that Ramming wasn't mandatory.

It isn't.

"If you roll a 6 or higher, you may Ram the figure."

[dok]

Your misunderstanding notwithstanding, I'm surprised you felt that using Ramming was a disadvantage on more than a rare occasion. You're aware that Rammed figures can't move to a higher level, right? And that the spaces are counted from the rammed figure, not Augamo, so it's impossible to leapfrog him (unless you're going off a cliff)? It's pretty much a pure case of pushing the other guy back, which is usually a good thing, particularly if you are fighting over high ground or trying to push through to a hero behind a screen.

Originally Posted by greygnarl

As for the Tomb Skeletons, obviously they will beat Carr 1v1, but that's not a fair comparison. I can think of many more situations where I would want Agent Carr than Tomb Skeletons.

Ninjas of the Northern Wind or 8 Tomb Skeletons?
4 Deathstrike Thralls or 9 Tomb Skeletons?
Master of the Hunt or 11 Tomb Skeletons?

None of those are really contests IMO.

I'm not saying Tomb Skeletons are great, but of all the times you've seen them do poorly, were they even once going up against something C+ or worse?

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by dok

Ninjas of the Northern Wind or 8 Tomb Skeletons?

I'm not saying Tomb Skeletons are great, but of all the times you've seen them do poorly, were they even once going up against something C+ or worse?

I'd bet on the Ninjas in that particular case.

Your defense reduction won't do much when I simply vanish away from you. Plus, with higher movement, they'd get first strike.

[greygnarl]

I played the rest of Ramming correctly. I'd attack a guy and he'd just move to a nice spot. I never felt like it gave me an advantage, and then I'd start to notice he was using it as extra move. (He was ignoring Augamo and going for my juicier pieces.) I guess it can be used as a pseudo disengage with his SA, but I never had a turn where that would've been a good move.

[dok]

The value of Ramming comes in knocking figures off perches and in getting through screens.