Introducing n00bs to Heroscape

[taladas]

Hi all,

This is my first post here, and it runs the risk of being a silly question, but I do have to ask for this advice in the hopes that someone will get back to me.

My wife and I have been addicted to Heroscape since Christmas when we picked up a SotM set. Since then we acquired a whole lot of extras (three Fortresses, a Valkyrie set (first edition too--not bad for $40), two D&D sets, a Marvel set and a whole lot of figures) and we're still amazed at how BRILLIANT this game is!

Anyway, we've been telling some friends about it and they said they'd like to try it, but our dillema is that they're really not that much into gaming, or at least not stuff like this, so I think playing an advanced game off-the-bat may be a little much (for them). So we were wondering if it's possible to play an advanced game with just the basic rules. Has anyone done this? Is it even worth it (considering the situation)? Does anyone have any tips for how to make such a game interesting enough to eventually get them to play advanced?

Any info would be greatly appreciated! There are going to be four of us playing. For the sake of a speedy setup, I was thinking of using a scenario from one of the manuals, but I can always whip something up in Virtualscape of course. If that's the better way to go, some tips on building a four-player map would be great. (I only built two-player stuff, which I'm hoping to post on here soon, or as soon as we work out all the kinks of the scenario we set up.


Thanks a bunch,

Dany

[Cavalier]

Do not play the basic game. Dragons who can't fly and gun wielding people who can't shoot is no way to introduce this game to any one.

Setup some premade armies and let them choose which they want and you take what's left.

Here are some other threads that might help you with ideas:
Best Way to Teach
How to Hook Your Friends on Heroscape and Teach Them to Play
What to teach?
Questions from a New player trying to learn and teach HS
Suggestions on how to teach Heroscape to others affectively
Which units do you teach with?

[Rÿchean]

I agree with Cav.

If you want to ensure you friends never play HS with you, start with Basic. There are no hooks in the Basic game play; they will be bored and wonder what the hell you are on to think this game was cool. Avoid the Basic game play...period.

You have to start with Master unless your group is all 8 year olds or something.

[i_r_beej]

I'll reiterate the nix on basic rules. They're really boring-- it's the special powers and attacks that really make the fun for me.

One thing that really made the game take off in my house is creating a story around the game. The campaigns in the D&D master set really do a good job of this.

The SotM and RotV also have set up stories for the maps in the back.

Use one of the scenarios in the books and read the flavor text in your best dramatic voice. Really set the stage.

Maybe even play some Halo soundtrack in the background? Or maybe LOTR soundtrack. Something heroic.

[lefton4ya]

I would play advanced game but without order markers (take a turn whenever and don't use characters that have a power with "order marker" in it) the first game or two. Also, read those threads Cav linked.

Welcome to the site and I hope to hear good news about some more players that got hooked.

[winonavampire]

Yup, no basic rules. For the same reason everyone has said.

When my friends and I started, all that was available was the first master set (RotV). You could pick armies from that pool. Everything there is pretty simple, no weird interactions and it does a good job of introducing the flavor of 'Scape.

It should only take a game to get the general rules down, then they can start picking more interesting units that appeal to their liking.

[RobWeaver]

Another "no basic game" from a longtime player. The basic game is really only good with kids under 8 or so. For anyone else, it's just a dice-fest.
Advice on playing with non-experienced gamers: Keep the game size small and the objectives limited. (300-400 points for a Classic 'scape game is plenty.) Put a turn limit on your game. Better to play 2 games in an evening from opposite ends of the same board than 1 long game that everyone is grumpy about.
Keep the tone light. Don't focus on the best units to draft based on synergies. Steer the new players away from obvious clunkers in their line-up ("Sure - draft those Obsidian Guards for my all snow and ice board. They'll be great.")

[jschild]

Originally Posted by RobWeaver

Another "no basic game" from a longtime player. The basic game is really only good with kids under 8 or so. For anyone else, it's just a dice-fest.
Advice on playing with non-experienced gamers: Keep the game size small and the objectives limited. (300-400 points for a Classic 'scape game is plenty.) Put a turn limit on your game. Better to play 2 games in an evening from opposite ends of the same board than 1 long game that everyone is grumpy about.
Keep the tone light. Don't focus on the best units to draft based on synergies. Steer the new players away from obvious clunkers in their line-up ("Sure - draft those Obsidian Guards for my all snow and ice board. They'll be great.")

I'll even disagree with this - the basic game should only be played with those under 5. As long as you introduce concepts slowly (small armies and figures with fewer powers) a 5 year old can easily learn the master game - just be sure to give any inexperienced player either a superior army or a higher point army their first couple times so they can have a better chance - best examples are non-complicated tourny style armies vs. armies that are fun but not competitive. That way they can learn to play and still have a chance against a more experienced opponent and you can have fun with a army and have the extra challenge of beating a less skilled but superior force.

[Dadnarg434]

Originally Posted by jschild

I'll even disagree with this - the basic game should only be played with those under 5. As long as you introduce concepts slowly (small armies and figures with fewer powers) a 5 year old can easily learn the master game - just be sure to give any inexperienced player either a superior army or a higher point army their first couple times so they can have a better chance - best examples are non-complicated tourny style armies vs. armies that are fun but not competitive. That way they can learn to play and still have a chance against a more experienced opponent and you can have fun with a army and have the extra challenge of beating a less skilled but superior force.

I agree. If your going to make them premade armies, try and go for figures that aren't to difficult to understand. Stick to characters like drake and the deathwalker, but maybe avoid the marro hive thing first time around. It can be a little confusing to explain.

Another point (kinda obvious, but Ive made this mistake before) make sure your armies are just as basic as their's, and explain what your figures can do before the game starts. People get really frustrated if you just suddenly spring special powers they didn't know about. Explain your army so they can feel like they are preparing against it.
Read those teaching/begginer threads. They're great.
Good luck

[cavebehr]

never underestimate that basic game, the basic game is to get people who have never played a game like d and d or risk into playing something that is a little of both. have a feel for the friends you are going to introduce the game to, if they do not like a game that has alot of reading and finding who goes well with whom and who has what power exactly etc etc etc then maybe just the basic game, it teaches you how to move but ignoring elevation and it teaches you how to use the attack and defense dice as well as ranged attacks

[screwDriver]

I started with Advance rules minus Order Markers. At that time, I have absolutely no experience with miniature gaming but I did have a lot of experience with CRPGs. Heck, I thought War Hammer was some sort of a plastic model hobby, where you assemble them, paint them and display them. Didn't know it was actually a game.

This is how I was introduced to HS. I was asked to choose a squad from the 4 squads before me. And I was like "Are you guys kidding me?!? Samurais, knights, werewolves (Anubians) and Shaolin monks going against each other?" We haven't started the game and I saw diversity at once.

Ditch the point system for this game. You can go royal rumble or 2-on-2, either one would be a nice option. I personally would choose a 1 hero + 1 squad to show them the bondings and special abilities. And doing a 2-on-2 would be nice to show that some bondings or specials can have extended benefits. It also shows that strategical collaboration goes beyond movement decisions but as well army building.

The initial game would be around 30 minutes. As you would teach them the concept of movements, attacking and defending, LOS, bonding, special attacks/skills, 20-sided die and the elements of a card. Once they start to get interested with the bondings and special skill, show them your figure collection and make them aware of just how varied the bondings and specials are. Make them see the ability to build a very thematic or diverse army and a simple or complex army sets.

After the first game, you can introduce the point system. And let them choose their own army. They should already understand the concept of having unique and common squads. The OM, let them in when you feel they are ready for it. But the most important thing you should remember is to play for fun... competition can come much later.

[xraine69]

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

I would play advanced game but without order markers (take a turn whenever and don't use characters that have a power with "order marker" in it) the first game or two. Also, read those threads Cav linked.

Welcome to the site and I hope to hear good news about some more players that got hooked.

Blasphemy!!! Just start them with small fun armies, but please teach them the corect way to play right off the bat. Or else they will just show up here dumping questions about how to play.



And you guys wonder why I rant so much about answering newbie questions. it's ya'lls fault.