The Book of Indigo Lantern (Uncommon)

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

I feel the loss of turn to remove the Marker is too easy. The way I read the card, this is the main power. I think I'd add a roll to remove it. I also really liked the multi-stack idea and would have liked to have seen that spelled out. If I'm not mistaken, the theme you are going for is the new figure now wearing an Indigo Ring; in which case anyone taking it off themselves would be nearly unheard of.

With the new version of this, I'd say its more in line with their ability to make others feel the pain they've inflicted on others. But yeah, the original was supposed to reflect the bonding process with the ring, but that is getting rehomed

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I didn't mind the end of round trigger, fwiw. Could always move that up or down for balance. I was just noting its strength.

Edit: And is the restriction on non-Compassionate figures necessary for the power? That seems like it's at factional cross-purposes with a potential Entity that overwrites with the Compassionate personality.

Admittedly some may be more comfortable with it now that it is just the -1 attack and no bonding turns and we ditched the personality thing.

So thematically, they are wiping out other emotions that aren't compassion, so from that perspective it doesn't really work on those who are only feeling compassion. Given we've only put it on the Tribe for a personality so far, I suppose it was leaving room for design space outside of that, especially since we're using Tribesman as a class.

Are you saying the issue is that Proselyte would make people compassionate, thus preventing these guys from using their ability? Would it be possible to essentially make it stack?

[IAmBatman]

I didn't mind the end of round trigger, fwiw. Could always move that up or down for balance. I was just noting its strength.

Edit: And is the restriction on non-Compassionate figures necessary for the power? That seems like it's at factional cross-purposes with a potential Entity that overwrites with the Compassionate personality.

[IAmBatman]

Stack in what way? Not sure I'm following the question. But, yes, that's what I'm saying the issue would be.

[LordVenoc]

Like, any figure with an indigo Battery that aren't Proselyte or the Tribesmen have -1, no bonding turns, and lose class and personality. So are hit by the effects of both if they have a battery marker. Because having to remember what came from who sounds like an awful memory mechanic.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think that makes sense. Ideally they'd be able to impact all the same figures.

[LordVenoc]

My newfound concern is that having it too easy to remove here is going to negatively impact Proselyte's ability to spread the markers and feel powerful, so I'm leaning toward returning to the D20 with the change in effect.
@johnny139 @Ronin @Lord Pyre
You guys had concerns about the D20, but more specifically with the personality effect. You guys good with returning to it with the new text, knowing the personality thing will wind up on an expensive event hero (that's gonna affect all synergies likely, not just personality)?

[Lord Pyre]

Yeah I had no problems with the power outside of them screwing a tiny group of characters. If they don't do that I'm good

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Yeah I had no problems with the power outside of them screwing a tiny group of characters. If they don't do that I'm good

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Ronin

[johnny139]

I didn't really have a problem with it to begin with, just thinking of compromise points, so I'm fine going back to the d20 thing.

[LordVenoc]

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

1. Does the design disrupt opponent's Order Markers in a way that offers a net gain in turns taken with strong figures versus the turns your opponent can take with strong figures (Ozymandias, Joker (I), Meteorite)?
   
   Disrupts opponents turns, limiting bonding options, but does not reduce below the traditional 3 turns in a round.
   
2. Does the design offer auto-wounding that either doesn't require taking turns or is otherwise extremely efficient (War Machine, Jason Voorhees, Cosmic Cube)?
   
   Nope.
   
3. Does the design immobilize figures or prevent turn-taking (Blob, Spider-Girl, Diablo, Green Lantern Alan)?
   
   Prevents turn taking without an Order Marker.
   
4. Does the design move opponent's figures in a way that's easy to pull off and can move figures multiple spaces in multiple directions (Graviton, Magneto, Vulture)?
   
   Nope.
   
5. Does the design allow for moving friendly figures without taking turns, or for moving 2+ friendly figures while still taking a turn (Martian Manhunter [I], Green Lantern John, Angel)?
   
   Nope.
   
6. Does the figure allow for two figures, one of them being a wide range of possible figures, to both attack on a single Order Marker (Zombie, Robot, Iron Patriot, Ms. Marvel, Rocket [II], Martian Manhunter [II], Nebula, Baby Groot, Havok)?
   
   Can only bond with other Indigo Tribe folks.
   
7. Does the design offer any sort of passive boost outside of a narrow set of figures (Star-Lord, Sage, Brainiac 5, Captain America, Batman [III])?
   
   Nope.
   
8. Does the design help keep your allies alive just by being nearby (Daring Decoy, Aaron Cash, Jocasta, Weather Wizard)?
   
   Nope.
   
9. Is it OK for the design to have defensive abilities that could make it essentially unkillable in some matchups or endgame situations (Cosmic Cube, Healing Factor, Master Martial Artist)?
   
   None present
   
10. If the figure has auto-destroy powers or powers that can force the opponent's figures to attack each other, are they balanced for strong opposing figures and/or boosts that can make the powers more reliable (Puppet Master, Psycho-Man, Enchantress)?
    
    Nope.
    
11. Is the figure likely to earn its value many times over by either running out alone at the start of a battle (pre-eval Crow, Solomon Grundy) or by sitting in the startzone until the end of a battle (Arnim Zola, Silk Spectre)?
    
    Not at all.
    
12. Will synergies in the design create concerns for future designs (Mad Thinker, pre-eval Enchantress, Star-Lord)?
    
    Don't think so.
    
13. Does the design combo particularly well with one of the design concerns above (Magma)?
    
    Could be a concern with Joker, stacking Order Markers on a hub that can't take turns with other units.
    

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.

Discussed, no issue.

Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.

Yep

Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.

Maybe shouldn't go with unknown? Dunno.

Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.

Check

Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.

Lantern, so check.

New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.

Nothing matches preexisting.

New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.

Check.

Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.

Just the stave.

Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.

Seems on par with other generic lanterns.

Concerns raised by checklist:

Are we good with species: unknown? We've done it on both Indigo-1 and 2, but we have made up some in the past, like on Brother Warth.

So, I do have concerns for how this combos with Joker. Stack markers on the Order Marker hub, and these guys deny the bonding options. Not sure how to approach that.

[IAmBatman]

A few levers to pull:

Up the D20 roll from 6 or less to make removing them easier; make them come off automatically at round's end.

I do think it'll take at least a little work to set up that combo and you won't be able to limit all bonding options right away and these guys can get killed in the meantime.

Some mechanical questions:

A) Figures that did not begin the game with an indigo Battery Marker on their card with an indigo Battery Marker on their card roll one fewer die when attacking. B) These figures may not take a turn without revealing an Order Marker on their card. C) At the end of each round, roll the 20-sided die, on a roll of 6 or lower, remove all indigo Battery Markers placed by this special power.

1. Does clause A stack? Seems like it would, which means for each Indigo Tribesman you have, there's a -1 to the attack. Obviously we want to shut the stacking down there.

2. Does clause B stack? I know the knee-jerk reaction is "shouldn't matter, because you can only take a turn or not" but the reason I ask is this: When a Tribesman is destroyed, it turns their effect off. But that means if there's still at least one Tribesman in play, then all figures that you've placed markers on with all of your Tribesmen (including the destroyed ones) are still shutting down turns with this clause, yes?

Shutting that down could make this more competitively manageable, but also more bookkeeping, so not sure of the best approach there.

3. In Clause C, does "this special power" refer only to the one on this Tribesman's Army Card, or to all of them? Like am I rolling the D20 once for all Tribesmen I control? Or am I rolling it for each of them? If I roll 6 or less, do I remove all the markers placed by all the Tribesmen, or just the ones placed by this one?

If you're rolling for each of them but removing for all of them, that'd also keep the competitive concerns at bay somewhat, IMO.