Extra Heroscape Mod (It's Super Extra!)

[GeneralRolando]

I've been a player of Heroscape for many years. I have always been captivated by the figures and just how fun a simple game can be. However, I was never without my gripes. I know many other players are the same. Several people have made home-made improvements to the game be it home-brew rules, custom figures, or the Delta points system, all of which are great additions.
In more recent years I've had the pleasure to play other miniatures games like X-Wing and Warhammer. These games range from simple to very complex but all have their own intriguing elements. My thought was "What if we took the best parts of some of these other games and made Heroscape even better?" This is the defining thought process behind this "Mod."
Do keep in mind that this is not because I dislike Heroscape the way it is, I simply think that the system could be manipulated differently for a game that involves more strategy and decision making.


Throughout the next several paragraphs I will point out several Heroscape elements that I feel need improvement. Following that I will mention a proposed solution to what I felt was an issue. Some issues are small some are more obvious but I decided to tackle the ones that I found to be the most prevalent.


So without further ado, here we go!


The Battlefield Problem(Starting Zones):

Spoiler Alert!

I have never liked starting zones. I don't like how they limit number of figures, I don't like wasting map material on blank voids, and I don't like how double spaced figures are even further limited by the arbitrary 16-24 numbers that is typical in most Heroscape maps. (I know it's not really that arbitrary)
The Solution:
Why have starting zones? Okay... I get why... but why not remove them? Instead of starting spaces, let's have "entry spaces" where figures can enter the battlefield.
The Theory:
Eliminating the need to place your figures on the battlefield before starting reduces setup time, increases the amount of effective playable space on the board, and introduces a reaction element to opponents initial movements. One could argue that if you trade off placing units on the start zone you still get the "reaction" effect but you still lose the first two benefits.
The Problems:
I have a hard time coming up with anything negative about this rule change. In my mind it is an easy to implement rule that doesn't muddle the waters very much as far as complexity.

Spoiler Alert!

The Detailed Rules:
All battlefields have entry points for each player near their board edge. These are the spaces that you army must start from, when entering the board from your deployment zone.


When taking the first movement with each of your units count their first space of movement by placing them on one of the hexes marked as your entry zone. The figure may continue moving until he has reached his move value.


Some units may have a special ability that allows them the enter the board from somewhere else. Usually from a flanking position or even in the middle of the battlefield. Units that do not have these abilities, enter the board at the entry zone by default. Units with flanking or deep-strike abilities may still enter from the entry zone without using their ability.

The Battlefield Problem (Terrain):

Spoiler Alert!

The lack of interaction between the terrain and the players has bothered me immensely. With the exception of Ticalla Jungle, all terrain simply blocks LOS or blocks movement. A castle pillar is no different than a tree or large stack of hex tiles.
The Solution:
COVER! Many people have actually mentioned to me that they already play with some type of partial cover rules, usually adding to defense dice. Cover is also an extremely common scenario in real life and in just about every other miniatures game and I would like such a system in Heroscape. Still working out details on how it should be done but here's what I have to start; A figure may use the "cover" action after moving and when next to an appropriate terrain feature. Place a "cover" token next to the covering figure. When rolling defense dice you may spend a cover token to re-roll any dice that did not roll a shield.
The Theory:
As soon as you add cover as an element into the game, movement suddenly gets a lot trickier. That re-roll means the difference between life and death. Melee figures can get extra bonuses while they approach that deadly 4th mass line supported by the Cpt. Why a re-roll as opposed to an extra die, you ask? Well I actually haven't settled on that yet, because a re-roll is much stronger than an extra die. It effectively doubles your chances at rolling a shield on every die you roll but doesn't increase the number of shields you're capable of rolling. I have thought about limiting the re-roll to only dice that roll blanks but in many cases that may actually be weaker. I'm not sure yet.
The Problems:
There are a lot of ways to define cover... A plant leaf... does it count? A wall that barely obscures you... does it count? Another friendly figure... does it count? These are issues that will have to be ironed out with many tests. Especially if we want a system that won't over-complicate the system. There are obvious cases and a lot of "well, duh!" cases but it's those other sneaky ones that people might like to abuse if they get the chance. I would like the ruling to be tournament tight, as in, no one will feel cheated when the rule is triggered.
In addition to that, once the rule is in place, this could making good battlefield extremely difficult. So many more issues to think about when it comes to height advantage, cover, movement pathing, and battle lines.

The Order Markers:

Spoiler Alert!

I know what you're thinking "WHAT! The order markers can't be bad, they are where all the game planning and decision making lies." Well hear me out for a sec. Order markers have one big flaw; there are 3 of them, and you can stack them causing a weird imbalance or action economy between characters. Okay, so two issues. Some characters demand constant OM placement while other are content to move once and never again. (Looking at you Raelin) Simple and fluid yes, I agree, honestly I'm still not sure I want to mess with the order markers too much but I'm tooling with some ideas anyway. As soon as you mess with order markers you may break the way the entire game has been balanced.
The Solution:
You have a deck of cards, yes? Cards with 4 suits which you give to each player. Each player now has 13 ranked cards. The players will split these cards among their units and this becomes their "order marker." (I have yet to decide if you can place multiple order cards on a single unit). In effect, EVERY unit will move during a round. Suddenly "Bonding" isn't so Over Powered, yeah? but the question is when. in initiative order, starting with the number 2 and moving up to Ace each player reveals their card and take the move but DOES NOT ATTACK. (This is one of my favorite elements from the X-Wing miniatures game) Then, in DESCENDING order, starting from Ace and going down to 2 the players take turns attacking.
The Theory:
This is probably my favorite idea and one that I hope to test first. The Ascending order movement give lower numbers a greater chance for territory control and better position, where the Descending order of attack gives the people who moved last, the first opportunity to strike. This will COMPLETELY change how the flow of the game goes but still has the planning phase of "Order Marker" placement.
The Problems:
Oh boy, where to start... I expect most may not enjoy this change as much but I still think it's the best part of the X-wing miniatures game and wanted to translate that over to Heroscape. This disrupts the traditional flow of Heroscape A LOT. I expect that during testing that games may only last 3-5 rounds. But, of course, each round has MANY more turns. This will also cause problems with most of the official units. Heroscape was designed with the idea that each figure COULD move and attack up to 3 times during a round at the cost of not using anything else. With this Order Marker system that is not possible. Suddenly Q-9 isn't so frightening now. (Okay, he is still a beast but not quite as invincible) Honestly, unless I redesign a majority of official Heroscape units, I expect this modification to kinda collapse on itself but it's one that I want to do anyway. I think games will be much more interesting when every unit on the board is involved.

Spoiler Alert!

The Detailed Rules:
Instead of the usual 4 order markers, each player is given a 13 card "order deck."
During the Planning phase of each turn, the players place one of the cards from the deck onto each of their army cards face down. Once each unit, including each copy of a common unit, has an order card then the players move onto the Movement Phase.
During the Movement Phase, starting with the play with initiative and moving clockwise, each player flips the order card labeled "2" and moves each figure on their army card. If a player did not play their "2" order card, then skip their turn. Once each player who played a "2" order card has made their movement, then repeat the same steps for the order card labeled "3." Then "4" and so on. Repeat the process until each value of card has been revealed ending with "Ace"
Once all units have moved, the players may move on to the "Attack Phase"
During the Attack Phase, again starting with the player with initiative, each player takes turns making attacks starting with the unit with the "Ace" order card. When making an attack, every figure on the army card may attack. If the player chooses not to attack, they cannot attack later with that unit.
After the attacks are made then remove the order card from the army card. The next play does the same with their unit with the "ace" labeled order card. Then "King" and so on. Continue in descending order until all units have had a chance to attack.
After all attacks have been made, return to the "Planning Phase" and restart the process, reassigning order cards to the army cards. Keep playing turns in this manner until one player no longer has any army cards.

The Line of Sight Problem:

Spoiler Alert!

Ugh, I honestly hate drawing line of sight. I hate wishing that my figures were just standing like soldiers so they couldn't be seen so easily. I've had lots of player claim they can see the tiniest fraction of my figure and I just don't bother to check because it's such a pain and a lot of the time I get different results and argument ensues.
The Solution:
Hex based LOS! Yeah... I say that, but it sounds waaaaay easier than it actually is. This is the only rule change that I have actually tried to implement and it is..... difficult. Lets just leave it at that. I want a way to determine line of sight between two medium size figure from ANY two points on the battlefield without having to lean over and do yoga to try and find a legal shot. (Okay so I'm exaggerating a lot but I still hate it)
The Theory:
Sadly, I just don't have a solution yet. But ideally you can pick two point on the map and determine if a figure would be able to see the other without either of the figures actually being present at those spots.
The Problems:
OMG hexagons are a pain! I understand why many mini's games use squares instead. FOR THIS EXACT REASON! LOS has to be determined in EVERY table top miniatures game and EVERY game has a different system for it. Heroscape is awesome and all but the elevation aspect makes this 10x harder to figure out. I totally get why they did LOS they way they did, because it was a kids game and there is no freaking way to do this without a degree in advanced calculus. (Again, a gross exaggeration) Hopefully, someone has a way to do this or I get an epiphany here soon because there is no way I'm doing all this work and still use the garbage LOS system we have.

The "Stuff" Problem:

Spoiler Alert!

This isn't so much of a problem so much as something I simply wanted to add to Heroscape. I'd like more opportunities for decision making and things for units to do beyond just moving and attacking. I.E. "Stuff"
The Solution:
The action phase will be a short phase immediately after completing the move of a unit. (Hero or squad) The unit will then go to the action phase where the unit can choose between several actions that have different effects. I will just name the actions for now with a short summary and expand on them at a later date. For now the actions are:
Focus (A token that can be spent to boost attack or defense)
Target (A token that is spent to improve attack)
Guard (A token that improves defense and controls opponents attacks)
Cover (As discussed above for defensive purposes)
Abilities (Most "after moving and before attacking" type things will happen in this part)
Damage Card Action (Discussed later)
The Theory:
This is another gameplay mechanic that I lifted from the X-wing game. It gives a definite phase of the turn where abilities can trigger and also gives most units access to a small list of universal abilities that can be used depending on the situation. Most of the time you will only be allowed 1 action per phase even if it is a squad. This will increase the versatility of every unit and allow for players to make beneficial decisions based on the state of the game.
The Problems:
The biggest issue I see here is that it adds another step to each turn thus lengthening the game. However, I feel the pros far outweigh the cons. Mostly that it is another element of the game that you can manipulate with abilities from customs or a potential redesign of official Heroscape units. I expect that many will find this an unnecessary addition but I think has a lot of potential. It also shouldn't be too difficult to implement into the standard game.

The Official Figures Problem:

Spoiler Alert!

There is a lot to be said here... The game isssss... not super balanced. There is still a lot of variety but there are simply some figures in my collection that NEVER hit the board because they aren't strong enough or simply not interesting enough to draw attention. In addition, I would like the official figures to work cohesively with the new system as a whole (Everything I've mentioned on this thread).
The Solution:
Huff... There is no simple fix for this. It's either deal with the figures as they are or completely redesign EVERY Heroscape unit from the ground up. As much work as it is, I'm more interested in the latter. Once I have the groundwork for the new system in place I want to aggressively start making and play testing units that are designed with the new system in mind. Some units will be easy with only a few abilities and concepts to carry over, but others with be much more difficult, such as bonding units. I wouldn't want to change the overall "feel" of each faction and unit, but I would like to design some units to be more fun to use. The Roman Legion leaps to mind as a key candidate as well as the Orcs which all rely on bonding and grouping to be effective. Not to mention the Zombies who, with this system, completely lose an ability.
The Theory:
This is kind of obvious here. I'm practically building a game from the ground up and bastardizing other games to do it. Most units are going to need some work to feel "at home" in the newly designed mechanics as framework.
The Problems:
I don't think most players like the idea of having to have a whole second set of cards and stats and abilities for their collection of figures. It would all be in the interest of making a game of Heroscape everything it can be but it will likely be a ton of work and I expect to run into many snags along the way. Hopefully, once I'm at this stage of the project, it wont seem so daunting and it won't be difficult for people to download and try the rules for themselves. I definitely don't want a high barrier of entry. In fact, I would like the system to feel "tournament worthy."

The Damage Problem:

Spoiler Alert!

This is another addition that could be a "take-it-or-leave-it" type situation. My beef is that damage on a unit is not, in fact, damaging. Sure, each token is that much closer to death but it has no effect on gameplay and I find that just a little too vanilla for my idealist version of Heroscape.
The Solution:
A Damage Deck! If you've played X-wing or maybe some other fantasy flight games you may know to what I refer. A deck of cards that you draw from when you take damage. Most of the time the damage is simply a wound token, but maybe you draw a "heavy hit" or a critical. These special wounds will have special effects like "you can't take actions" or "move half speed" or "roll one less attack die" etc etc...
The Theory:
I think this kind of thing can go a long way to make the game feel more like a "battle" than just an exchange of die rolls. Again, perhaps not the most necessary but it's also not very difficult to implement even in that vanilla game without too much effort.
The Problems:
Something like this can be very decisive. Either you like it or you don't. A lot of games don't take wound effects into account as board games are simply an abstraction of real life. It's not needed but I think it adds a lot of flavor and isn't hard to add into the game. It's like the cherry on top. Plus, it adds another mechanic to play with for unit abilities and special mechanics.

This is not all the ideas that have been floating around in my head but it's most of the major ones. I will add more in awhile with more time.

[Tornado]

Cool.

For LoS, a couple solutions I have seen used in Battletech is a laser pointer and an upside down periscope that can be placed over the figure you are looking from.

Why 13 turns? That feels like way too far to plan ahead.
I could see a poker card for each army card so everyone goes, every turn. I have seen that used in Battletech.

Cover is tough. You need solid rules that cannot be disputed.

Entry zone is pretty cool. I like the idea that you need to get all your figures out before you can use them.

[GeneralRolando]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Why 13 turns? That feels like way too far to plan ahead.
I could see a poker card for each army card so everyone goes, every turn. I have seen that used in Battletech.

13 is just how many cards are in each suit of a single deck.
You would assign only 1 card to each unit. 2-A
If no unit has a 2 on it then you just skip and go to the next number that someone has a number for. The idea being that if you want to move first the nyou need to play lower numbers. If you want to attack first then you need to play higher numbers. Initiative breaks ties.

[Tornado]

Right on. Yeah the card technique works pretty good.
The problem I see is the team with the most cards gets the most turns.

[GeneralRolando]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Right on. Yeah the card technique works pretty good.
The problem I see is the team with the most cards gets the most turns.

Yeah that's one thing I thought of. It somewhat weakens heroes in general because it's assumed in the normal game that even if you have only a few guys the turns still match up. I have some other ideas floating around that will hopefully balance this out a bit so high-cost heroes aren't such a liability.

[GeneralRolando]

Added three additions to the first post:
The "stuff" problem
The Official figure problem
and the Damage problem.

[wriggz]

Check these out:

Trex assault like rules https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=53711
Classic unit redesigns https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=37768
Excellect cover rules https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=30507
Nerf commoms https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=53030
Heigh advantage bases on figure height https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=51813

Each addresses a different issue. Combining them up will make you games more complex and more simulation like which might be what you are going for.

[GeneralRolando]

Originally Posted by wriggz

Check these out

Each addresses a different issue. Combining them up will make you games more complex and more simulation like which might be what you are going for.

I will take a good look at all of these and see what I like. These may be some of the solutions I’m looking for. Thanks!

[GeneralRolando]

Originally Posted by wriggz

Check these out:

Trex assault like rules https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=53711
Classic unit redesigns https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=37768
Excellect cover rules https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=30507
Nerf commoms https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=53030
Heigh advantage bases on figure height https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=51813

Each addresses a different issue. Combining them up will make you games more complex and more simulation like which might be what you are going for.

Some of these are pretty neat additions. I'm not a huge fan of nerfing commons or those assault rules. The height advantage rules are interesting, I may use that instead of standard height rules.


I don't think I really want more simulation but simply more decisions to make during a particular turn. I think even the most basic unit should have several options to him. It's too often when you can basically go on autopilot and never make a meaningful decision in a game. The main problem I see with some of these additions is not they they are bad in any way but they are made with a different school of thought than what I think I am interested in. I'm more interested in making Heroscape different as a whole as opposed to changing a small part of it. While I want Heroscape to have cover rules, I want those rules to work cohesively with the other changes I put in place. Perhaps I'm looking to more make a new game with elements of Heroscape (namely the pieces and combat system) as opposed to re-making Heroscape with elements of other games, and I'm willing to rebuild the game from the ground up to do so. Even if that means recreating the official units and rules into new ones with the new rule system in place. By the end I hope I have a well enough designed rule set that anyone with some Heroscape sets can try out a more engaging, and immersive experience.


Either way, thanks for showing me some of the great content that long time Heroscapers have provided.