This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

[Tai-Pan]

Originally Posted by TurtleKing99

[*]Alternatively, a better version of those baseboards.

Oh yeah, Baseboards is really a no-brainer, especially since they already had the idea with Arena. And it saves that base layer of terrain in production, storage, and building.....

[AMIS]

How they succeed when selling for nostalgia, which BTW is not what they said they were aiming for at the beginning but became so apparent during the campaign they ended up saying it, is to make the new heroscape similar to the old heroscape.

I'm not talking about the new designs, the new designs and sculpts were amazing. I'm talking about painted miniatures. I know, I know 'that would cost a fortune and wouldn't be anywhere near as good as some could do'.
I understand we all (!?!?) have painting booths and/or tables and a slew of extra paint from painting our other war games so it doesn't cost much more for people to individually paint them themselves. It was Henry Ford that proved a crew of people in an assembly line is much faster and cheaper than individual craftsman. Although I also understand they assumed they could pass the cost onto the consumer but at $250 they should've thought better.

Did they have to many unknown style figures in the offering...probably. Did the campaign ask for to much money at once...maybe. Was there not enough different tiers being offered...absolutely. But the main issue is non-painted miniatures.

Heroscape has everything you could ask for when it comes to incredible aesthetics. Amazing sculpts, 3D terrain, wonderful LOS blockers, flashy unique looking cards, and painted miniatures. Remove one of these things and IMHO it's not worthy of being called heroscape.

I understand this post will ruffle a few feathers but it's true. Look at what was offered...
The sculpts were amazing...different than expected I grant you...but amazing.
The 3D terrain was still present and included some new style Jungle trees.
The new walls seemed to be a better set up than the old castle walls.
The community voted to bring back the closest offering to the old style of cards, when the hex shaped cards were probably better (although even I would've voted for the original cards as well out of nostalgia).

I would've spent $100 for a set with the same amount of terrain as the Marvel set that had with 10 unique units, a couple of trees (instead of the breakdown wall section) to help re-start the game. This campaign failed because it didn't have painted miniatures (and I paint miniatures, Bloodbowl is my other favourite game and those come unpainted but I have well over 40 fully painted teams) so it's not Heroscape. At this point it's Warhammer light.

How to succeed? It's simple. Have painted miniatures.

[caps]

I don't think that satisfying the unreasonable expectation for painted minis is the way to move Heroscape forward in 2022.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Originally Posted by AMIS

How to succeed? It's simple. Have painted miniatures.

Bah, I sincerely hope that's not entirely true. I love my non-painted AotP and the non-paint was hardly an inconvenience (to me) for AoA. IMO the largest issue with the offering was lack of tiers/price of the only tier.

If it saves ~10% on the price tag, I'll take unpainted probably every time as long as the figures are still made of the colored material to denote their general.

Should there have been a tiered offering of painted versus unpainted? Maybe.... Tough to please everyone when Heroscape has been on hiatus for so long and it seems many of us have veered onto our own paths for what we want out of Heroscape.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

If it saves ~10% on the price tag, I'll take unpainted probably every time as long as the figures are still made of the colored material to denote their general.

I mean, not that the costs reflect that at all realistically, but I gladly would've paid $25 more to paint this up lol.

[Master Roshi]

One thing they could do that would be feasible is have the person who created the designs for Exiles of the Sundered Sea create two more human pirate sculpts, similar to the two already in the squad, so that it can be an entire historical human pirate squad. Save the two octopus pirate sculpts for a future release so that those designs aren't wasted. Do the same with Fia Bonny, create a new historical version and then save the first sculpt for a future female pirate. That way we will have a stronger historical presence without having to design an entirely new unit and abilities that need to be playtested. Make it clear that the original designs will be used later so that people who like them aren't left frustrated
This improves one of the main criticisms people have had about AoA.


I have no issue with sci-fi/fantasy pirates, I actually really like it but I feel it is of lesser importance than pure vanilla human pirates. When push comes to shove, the vanilla pirates should get precedent.

[nyys]

I agree that it was the lack of tiers. The non-painted minis definitely did it in for some and I'm sure it disappointed all of us. But I think even most of those who yelled about the lack of painted minis, understood it's not viable in today's environment. At least not at a reasonable price point.


I'm guessing it would be at least $40-50 for 3-5 pre-painted minis. That, is crazy $$.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by nyys

I agree that it was the lack of tiers. The non-painted minis definitely did it in for some and I'm sure it disappointed all of us. But I think even most of those who yelled about the lack of painted minis, understood it's not viable in today's environment. At least not at a reasonable price point.


I'm guessing it would be at least $40-50 for 3-5 pre-painted minis. That, is crazy $$.

Maybe not quite that much..... Though I'm thinking pre inflation. Those three space merc packs have six painted figs and are like $35~

[caps]

So I guess we can just skip beating this conversation to death anymore since they aren't going to try to bring Heroscape back at this point.

[TurtleKing99]

Originally Posted by caps

I don't think that satisfying the unreasonable expectation for painted minis is the way to move Heroscape forward in 2022.

Agreed, it's probably the least feasible revision. Plus it has an obvious workaround.

Throwing another suggestion into the mix: new releases could be completely granular. That is, just sell individual(ish) units/terrain, and package/ship them together per order. With modern online retailing being as advanced as it is today, this is feasible.

[TurtleKing99]

Originally Posted by caps

So I guess we can just skip beating this conversation to death anymore since they aren't going to try to bring Heroscape back at this point.

You never know, they could run low on ideas. The advantage to Scape now is they already have a product mostly designed/ready to go. Long shot, maybe 10% in the next few years, but not hopeless.

How's mass 3D printing nowadays? Solves the mold cost problem.

[Mud Turkey 13]

As someone who owns everything from Heroscape's original run (besides Aquilla's Alliance), I will say there were two things that stopped me from backing this: price point and lack of painted miniatures. $250 was way too high. If they would have tried this for $100 or $150 I probably would have backed it if the miniatures would have been painted. I play Warhammer 40K. I have painted tons of miniatures and terrain, but having the pre-painted miniatures was a big draw with the original game.

$250 plus all the time it would have taken to paint the new miniatures to fit in with the old stuff just was not worth it to me. If they made a project with a quarter of the terrain and minis they put in this project, but made it painted to match the old minis and charged $150 it would have been backed at 10,000 backers.

Having add-ons would have been another boost. Not including them is incomprehensible to me.

This was a huge miss that could have been a massive success if they would have switched around some of their priorities. It is unfortunate for the designers and the people who worked so hard to bring it back as well as the people who love the game. Maybe they'll give it another shot in five or 10 years, but without the painted miniatures it is going to be a hard sell at these kinds of prices.