The Book of Ares

[Arkham]

I don't find a huge issue in killing your own figures as a strategy. In this case, it's actually thematic. Ares is in it for himself and feeds off of it. So I'm not really against it, personally. You're paying the extra 100-150 points to make it happen, knowing full well the opponent can simply burn turns after each kill, with a 25% chance of removing them thus wasting your points further.

However, if it's an issue, I'm sure we can figure something out, even if it's a lowered roll from what we already have. Something like a 11+ offers a decent chance, especially if you're adding their life number to the roll, but there's still going to be that 20-30% chance or so that you killed your own figure for nothing.

[Lazy Orang]

I'll be honest, aiming Ares this high kind of confuses me. As someone into mythology, particularly Greek Mytholgy, he's fairly powerful (he's a god, after all), but far from the most powerful god out there, and I wouldn't say he was even on par with Thor, Set (Seth) or Hades (Pluto). Is this just a matter of DC making their gods much more powerful than Marvel does?

I only know the DC version of the character from one Justice League Unlimited episode, but, based on that, you seem to have him down well - it's just his power scale that confuses me.

Also, should he have Olympian Fortitude from Hercules and Pluto?

~ Lazy Orang, who is herself planning on designing a version of Ares (a mythological version, rather than a comic one) for my personal customs that is very different from yours, but who thinks yours looks like a lot of fun.

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Okay. You will need to update the wording to say Ares is not affected by it. Both Raelin and Taelord use this language.

~Dysole, feeling like there may be other C3G figures that might need this update

Originally Posted by Arkham

I believe the general C3G rule is that figures are not within clear sight of themselves. Invisible Woman's defense boost special specifically states that she gets the boost because of that reason. Cap and Star-Lord don't gain their own boosts etc. for other examples.

Arkham has it right. In C3G, figures cannot have clear sight on themselves. It's often caused confusion for players coming over from Classic 'Scape, but too many units are worded based on that ruling to try to change things now.

NAME = ARES

SPECIES = OLYMPIAN
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = WARLORD
PERSONALITY = MALEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 6

LIFE = 9

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = ~600

GOD OF WAR
Anytime a Unique Hero or Event Hero is destroyed, immediately remove 1 Wound Marker from this card, and place 1 black War Marker on this card, to a maximum of 3. If you control the destroyed figure's Army Card, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on this card.

?????
After a figure takes a turn, if a figure did not receive a wound during that turn, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, remove a War Marker from this card.

MALEVOLENT INFLUENCE
Add one to Ares' Move and Attack numbers, and subtract one from Ares' Defense number, for each War Marker on this card. If there is at least:

• 1 War Marker on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares cannot leave engagements and must attack an adjacent figure after ending their movement, if possible; and
• 2 War Markers on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares subtract 1 from their defense; and
• 3 War Markers on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares add 1 to their attack.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

I really like this version, quite a bit more than what is in the SP; 4 markers felt like too much and I like cutting out some of the rolls and complexity. Adding in the OM retrieval is a cool bit though.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I'll be honest, aiming Ares this high kind of confuses me. As someone into mythology, particularly Greek Mytholgy, he's fairly powerful (he's a god, after all), but far from the most powerful god out there, and I wouldn't say he was even on par with Thor, Set (Seth) or Hades (Pluto). Is this just a matter of DC making their gods much more powerful than Marvel does?

I only know the DC version of the character from one Justice League Unlimited episode, but, based on that, you seem to have him down well - it's just his power scale that confuses me.

Honestly, the design is holding back on his power level in a couple aspects, but to give a sense of his powers/abilities:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

As do all the immortal Olympian gods, Ares possesses tremendous strength, though he is now perhaps the strongest of them, rivaled only by Hercules. Moreover, he is a master of conflict and strategy with centuries of experience in the field, and has complete telekinetic command and mastery over any weapon. He also possesses superhuman speed and superhuman agility equal to that of Hermes once he absorbs massive amounts of the psychic energies that give him his powers. Pertaining to his being a war god, violence, anger, hate, death, and bloodshed make him stronger and heals any wounds he may receive as his soul is able to absorb the psychic energy created by such events. His armor is virtually indestructible and his weapons are greater than mortal ones. He can shapeshift his being into any form he wishes and can teleport himself and others. At one time, he was also recognized as the Death God of the Greek Pantheon, having control over the dead and able to resurrect and command a whole army of undead from the Underworld to do his will, and then, send them back whenever he wished. Being a god, he is also immortal and cannot be harmed by mortal weapons, only magical ones.

In The New 52 continuity, the character's mere presence invokes battle and slaughter in his surroundings. This is seen in Wonder Woman #4, where Ares is sitting in a bar in Darfur; all the men inside are dead and a riot is breaking out outside the bar- even children are taking part in the gunfire. In Wonder Woman #9, Ares is present at a cafe in Damascus, where a fatal blast takes place as he is leaving.

It is worth noting however, the 600 point value is just an estimate. There's nothing saying that's where he'll actually end up. His powers are helping/hurting everyone on the battlefield, including his own team. His markers also boost his stats but hurt his defense. So it's a very extreme design in many ways. With him being an Event Hero and not receiving other synergies or boosts, he's supposed to be manipulating the battlefield for himself only. I feel the design captures it, and at full strength he's got 1 more attack than Thor, less movement than The Flash(who I'd imagine Hermes falls at at least 10), and much less defense than other Gods(we may need to adjust the amount he heals from a kill).

So overall, I think his power level is represented quite well. I wouldn't be surprised to see his points come closer to low to mid 500's when it's all said and done.

[Tornado]

Arkham

Agreed V.

I would keep his ability to destroy his own and just see how it plays.
Otherwise your number of possible markers is always in control of your opponent who would be wise to run as few characters as possible.

I would consider altering the removal clause to wait until after all the turns for that OM before rolling to limit multiple rolls from builds like the F4. Maybe not needed if we get the d20 roll right.

[Arkham]

Could we just use "after a player takes a turn"? I know we were dicussing moving away from that wording, so what wording would we want to go with?

[Tornado]

If needed. I would try it as is, first and see if we just need a d20 roll tweak.
If the issue becomes the number of rolls then try that.

I think this design is going to be difficult to predict and is simply going to require some testing.

[Arkham]

I'll update the SP with the following version, later tonight once the 48 hours has passed:

NAME = ARES

SPECIES = OLYMPIAN
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = WARLORD
PERSONALITY = MALEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 6

LIFE = 9

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 550

GOD OF WAR
Anytime a Unique Hero or Event Hero is destroyed, immediately remove 1 Wound Marker from this card, and place 1 black War Marker on this card, to a maximum of 3. If you control the destroyed figure's Army Card, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on this card.

?????
After a player takes a turn, if a figure did not receive a wound, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, remove a War Marker from this card.

MALEVOLENT INFLUENCE
Add one to Ares' Move and Attack numbers, and subtract one from Ares' Defense number, for each War Marker on this card. If there is at least:

• 1 War Marker on this card, figures within 4 spaces of Ares cannot leave engagements and must attack an adjacent figure after ending their movement, if possible; and
• 2 War Markers on this card, figures within 4 spaces of Ares subtract 1 from their defense; and
• 3 War Markers on this card, figures within 4 spaces of Ares add 1 to their attack.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

[Lazy Orang]

Are you sure he shouldn't have Olympian Fortitude? That's really my only question here.

[All Your Pie]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Could we just use "after a player takes a turn"? I know we were dicussing moving away from that wording, so what wording would we want to go with?

This seems like a much better idea, which gets away from some of the mechanical weirdness of figure turns and also gets rid of his weakness to multi-turn armies like the Fan 4.

[Dysole]

Yeah, probably a losing battle, but it's not the first time wording was updated for clarity (Expert Climbing). Anyways, until I have a final wording I'm not going to try and theoryscape too hard, but I will be watching this figure carefully.

~Dysole, now having flashbacks to the HISHE God of War

[Arkham]

@Dysole @dok @Soundwarp SG-1

Any concerns with the version listed a few posts above?

Point value recommendation? Armies to try to abuse? Strategies?

Before Initials come up, I want to make sure I'm well prepared to take on any concerns.