C3G Strategy Article Discussion Thread

[Smithy Winfred]

Originally Posted by weebaer

I am only speaking of 15+ games where the Lanterns have been consistently beaten by the Justice League, the Avengers, the X-Men, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, Fantastic 4 and co, Insane faction, and more recently pretty much anything that can take advantage of the Sage+Brainiac 5 combo.

They do have a lot of potential, certainly not one of the strongest factions though.

That combo takes at least 450(using Lighting Lad as you legionairre) points, not even counting the actual figures you have to get in order to make up the points.

I have most (if not all) of the playtested GL constructs (testing the helicopter right now) and they definitly increse the GL's effectiveness, especially when you pair them with Kyle Rayner (by far the best GL when you add all the constructs). My best games with GLs have most often featured a out-of-faction figure who can absorb a lot of wounds, and who can tie up the auto wounders while the GLs get ready to take them out. I just wish there weren't so many figures who are made to defeat GLs

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by Smithy Winfred

That combo takes at least 450(using Lighting Lad as you legionairre) points, not even counting the actual figures you have to get in order to make up the points.

This is true, but you do not need very many figures to make this combo effective. a lot of common figures benefit greatly from it. GL's have a LOT of trouble with massed common figures/squads. Moloids, Fire Ants, Multiple Man all take great advantage of the combo. Other figures like Graviton, War Machine, Poison Ivy, Puppet Master, and many more all push the envelope with this combo. I am trying to test figs "breaking ability" during the SLH seasons. It does seem that Brainiac could use a bit of re-wording maybe making it 2 legionnaires, or maybe his bonus can only affect legionnaires you control. I dont think the designers were able to foresee the possibilities when pairing him with Sage.

I am excited to see more constructs added to the GL's. I really like the GL's, I am only making the point that a lot of people on the forums consider them to be better than I have found them to be.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by weebaer

I am trying to test figs "breaking ability" during the SLH seasons.

I noticed.

And I'm actually glad that someone is doing that.

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I noticed.

And I'm actually glad that someone is doing that.

Haha. I was glad to see the Ban on PM this time around. His points should definitely be in the 250pt range in order to raise the ban imo.

I think the C3G playtests are generally very well done, they just dont try to think of all the possibilities and scenarios where each fig can be broken. I figured I can help with that.

I'm still not sure how Puppet Master escaped the play-testing phase with only 140 points though.

[Tornado]

Perhaps it had something to do with how early he was released.
It would be tough to playtest him with designs that have not been designed.

I could be talking out of school, though.

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Perhaps it had something to do with how early he was released.
It would be tough to playtest him with designs that have not been designed.

I could be talking out of school, though.

That is a great point. I do know he was one of the early figs.

Going back to the thread though:
I really like Relishmonster's team in SLH season 4:
Dark Phoenix, Martian Manhunter, Bizarro, Jocasta, Ragdoll, Atom, Wendigo.

Really fun team with tons of strategy.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by weebaer

Haha. I was glad to see the Ban on PM this time around. His points should definitely be in the 250pt range in order to raise the ban imo.

I think the C3G playtests are generally very well done, they just dont try to think of all the possibilities and scenarios where each fig can be broken. I figured I can help with that.

I'm still not sure how Puppet Master escaped the play-testing phase with only 140 points though.

If you want to write up those playtest reports, we will look into re-costing him. C3G is always willing to admit mistakes.

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by quozl

If you want to write up those playtest reports, we will look into re-costing him. C3G is always willing to admit mistakes.

I will see what I can cook up. Do you mind if I use some of my previous SLH games where I have played Puppet master? That will greatly benefit the write-up. I will be sure to include how many times a successful String Pull happened, and how many times he was able to utilize Reactive Mind Control.

No, I think you guys have done fantastic! I love being able to benefit from all of your hard work

It is hard to keep up with so many new original ideas that will sometimes combine to create some serious power. That's why we play SLH! We can see what is both popular, effective, and possibly broken.

Thank you so much for everything you guys do.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by weebaer

It is hard to keep up with so many new original ideas that will sometimes combine to create some serious power. That's why we play SLH! We can see what is both popular and effective.

SLH is very helpful in that regard.

[quozl]

Yeah, SLH games are fine!

[dok]

Better than just writing up SLH games, you can actually give people access to the game doc, so they can review the game via version history, and look at the dice rolls in the logs. If you know how to do it, it's like watching a slide show of the game.

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Sage+Braniac 5 is an amazing combo; I'm using it this season along with Multiple Man. I'm also using Loki, like you did last season weebaer, but I don't think that's as helpful. You really want two OMs on Sage after initiative to protect yourself from losing OM flexibility if you roll a 1 on God of Mischief. So with Loki, your bonuses are:

Pre-OM1: +2 (2 OM on Sage, 2 on Loki, 1 on Braniac)
After OM1: +4 (1 OM on Sage, 1 on activated figure, 3 on Braniac)
After OM2: +3 (1 OM on Sage, 2 on activated figure, 2 on Braniac)
After OM3: +3 (3 on activated figure, 2 on Braniac)

While without Loki, you do almost as well:

Pre-OM1: +4 (1 OM on Sage, 3 on Braniac)
After OM1: +3 (1 OM on Sage, 1 on activated figure, 2 on Braniac)
After OM2: +2 (1 OM on Sage, 2 on activated figure, 1 on Braniac)
After OM3: +2 (3 on activated figure, 1 on Braniac)

So... yeah, Loki's not really worth it with that combo. Loki/Sage is a great combo, but it makes more sense when combined with figures that have "X" marker powers, as opposed to as a boost to the Sage/Braniac combo. Something like Sage, Loki, and a bunch of Healing Factor mutants, so you can double heal at the end of the round by using two "X" markers.

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Puppet Master, as currently written, is at least a 300 point figure IMO. When combined with the right army (an army with lots of defensive powers that is designed to turtle) he is ridiculously dominant. If you don't have commons or squads or event heroes or insubstantial heroes or mental shield heroes, you are screwed. And even then, you have to hide any figures that don't have those powers behind LoS blockers, and hope you can kill Puppet Master before you need to use them. If you have Mastermind or Mandarin you have some protection, but that's about it.

I had a nice chat with ibchief before our online game a couple seasons back about PM. A good way to redesign PM would be for him to start with a few string pull markers that he can place on unique heroes that don't have the mental shield power at the beginning of the game. His other powers would only work on those figures, and if he ever failed a roll on those figures you remove the marker. (You would lower the die roll needed for string pull, too, but it would only work once a turn.)

[dok]

Originally Posted by weebaer

It does seem that Brainiac could use a bit of re-wording maybe making it 2 legionnaires, or maybe his bonus can only affect legionnaires you control. I dont think the designers were able to foresee the possibilities when pairing him with Sage.

I don't think Braniac 5 needs any adjustment. He was perfectly reasonably balanced before Sage came along, because any OM that was sitting on him was an OM that couldn't be used on other figures. Your only way to really leverage his power was to take turns with him and Cosmic Boy, which was the point - a super team that's quite well balanced.

It was Sage's ability that drives things, not Braniac 5. Sage's power upends all previous limitations to OM management. Given all the crazy ways Sage can be used... if a figure needs to get adjusted, it's Sage!

Originally Posted by weebaer

I am excited to see more constructs added to the GL's. I really like the GL's, I am only making the point that a lot of people on the forums consider them to be better than I have found them to be.

The short answer why is that, in C3G, Powers>Stats. The Green Lantern Corp is very stat-dependent.