Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

[Mr Migraine]

Whether Craig gets his hands on Heroscape or not, I figure Hasbro would want to hold on to the patented terrain system, as they also used it for AotP and could use it for any future miniature game.

I am no IP lawyer, but this looks like more of a licensing opportunity than an outright purchase by Soaring Rhino. I doubt they could come up with a lump sum large enough to pry the Heroscape brand and terrain system from Hasbro's clutches.

[vegietarian18]

To start my turn, I disengage with 1 4th Mass, and he dies. Can I now choose to Wait Then Fire with 3 other 4th Mass? I think the answer is no, but there are two arguments you can make for yes: 1. the disengagement triggered while the 4th was on the space he started on, and so he never moved because he died on that space 2. because he's dead he's no longer in the 4th Mass, and so "none of the 4th Mass moved this turn".

[Mr Migraine]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

To start my turn, I disengage with 1 4th Mass, and he dies. Can I now choose to Wait Then Fire with 3 other 4th Mass? I think the answer is no, but there are two arguments you can make for yes: 1. the disengagement triggered while the 4th was on the space he started on, and so he never moved because he died on that space 2. because he's dead he's no longer in the 4th Mass, and so "none of the 4th Mass moved this turn".

This doesn't answer the question, but it's helpful for terminology:

Found here. Emphasis is mine.

Originally Posted by Heroscape FAQs 11.3

When does a figure actually receive a leaving engagement attack?
The leaving engagement attack occurs as soon as you declare that
the figure is moving onto a space that is no longer adjacent.
Remember, adjacency is checked only on spaces, not the area in
between spaces. Once you do that, your opponent can take a
leaving engagement attack. The figure is considered to be still on
the adjacent space when it receives or doesn't receive the leaving
engagement attack.

Does "declare it's moving" = "moved this turn"?

[Airborne Elite 5]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

To start my turn, I disengage with 1 4th Mass, and he dies. Can I now choose to Wait Then Fire with 3 other 4th Mass? I think the answer is no, but there are two arguments you can make for yes: 1. the disengagement triggered while the 4th was on the space he started on, and so he never moved because he died on that space 2. because he's dead he's no longer in the 4th Mass, and so "none of the 4th Mass moved this turn".

I would say no. Because, even though the 4th died, you still had the intention of moving it and it still had a chance to live.

[Dad_Scaper]

The first argument is interesting. The second, however, is weak. In reverse order:

(2) One of the 4th Mass. moved, then it died. You would not be asking the same question, I think, if it *did* move a couple spaces, and then was killed by Leaving Engagement. The measure of time contemplated by the card is "this turn," and one moved during that span.

There are game-long effects that go away when the card in question is removed - Spartacus's Inspiration, for instance - but in those cases the measure of time contemplated by the card is "while this unit is not dead," though it doesn't say so on the cards. The measure of time contemplated by the 4th, though, is written right there for you to see, and answers your question.

(1) As for your first argument, I think I recall that a LEA technically occurs on the leaving space and not on the arriving space. So I think they could then WTF, if I'm remembering that correctly. "Intent" has nothing to do with it, I would rule. Someone who remembers the resolution of the LEA site discussion better than I do may be able to provide a better answer.

That's how I would call it.

[vegietarian18]

I agree that the second argument is bad. So it's mostly on the validity of the first.

With C3V powers like Morgoloth's aura and Raymond's aura, location of the disengage is relevant, and the ruling is that the disengage happens on the square you disengage from, not the square you move to. So I think it's mostly settled that the 4th Mass never reaches his destination hex. The question then comes down to: "is attempting to disengage a form of movement". Or: "does disengagement happen when you move away from a space or is disengagement simply declared". There are other situations where the question can be relevant. Say a Hydra wants to go left to attack if he doesn't take disengage wound and right to safety if he does take disengage wound, and needs his full move to get to both desired places. If he can declare leaving engagement before moving he has both options, otherwise he must pick before the die is rolled.

[Airborne Elite 5]

Per the rule book: as soon as you move away (on to a space that's not adjacent) the figure may take a passing swipe at your figure.
According to this, disengagement happens after you leave the space, not before.

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by Airborne Elite 5

Per the rule book: as soon as you move away (on to a space that's not adjacent) the figure may take a passing swipe at your figure.
According to this, disengagement happens after you leave the space, not before.

This was updated in the MS3 rulebook. The wound happens on the space you start from. This should be located in the glossary, iirc. I can find out for certain when I get home. The clarification is most notably important for Zombies of Morindan.

Imo, an attempt to move would still count as as moving, thus negating wait then fire. You don't get to activate another 4th Mass figure when one dies, right?

[Airborne Elite 5]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

This was updated in the MS3 rulebook. The wound happens on the space you start from. This should be located in the glossary, iirc. I can find out for certain when I get home. The clarification is most notably important for Zombies of Morindan.

Imo, an attempt to move would still count as as moving, thus negating wait then fire. You don't get to activate another 4th Mass figure when one dies, right?

Ahh, yes, I don't have the third masterset. But, yes, as I said above as well, disengagement attacks only activate when you move, so, whether the 4th dies or not, an attempt at moving him was still made, thereby negating WTF.

[happyjosiah]

Although it's non-intuitive, I think I'm on the side of WTF still working.

It's clear the wound occurs on the adjacent space and the figure actually has not yet moved. Wait then Fire says: "If none of the 4th Massachusetts Line move this turn..."

And none of them have.

Moving 0 spaces is not considered moving. I believe that has already been established by other rulings on such things.

In a sillier example, an "attempt to move" that was negated by a Cyberclaw would also not count as moving. Imagine a power like cyberclaw that only worked on a d20 roll of 15+. If the 15+ was rolled, that figured would not have "moved".

[Rÿchean]

I think it is a bit slippery to look at it that way. That leads to, do i got 4 shots or 3?

If none of the 4th mass move, you get up to 4 WTF shots. If one dies from leaving engagement, the shot should also be lost, in which case he ends up being a figure you "activated" during your move phase. But you didn't move anybody during your move phase, so you still get 4 shots. It is messy to me.

I'd say no on the WTF if I was asked to rule on it at a tournament.

[rednax]

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

I think it is a bit slippery to look at it that way. That leads to, do i got 4 shots or 3?

If none of the 4th mass move, you get up to 4 WTF shots. If one dies from leaving engagement, the shot should also be lost, in which case he ends up being a figure you "activated" during your move phase. But you didn't move anybody during your move phase, so you still get 4 shots.

I'd say no on the WTF if I was asked to rule on it at a tournament.

That's true. Let's say you had eight 4th Mass and they're all engaged. If your first 4th Mass dies from a leaving engagement attack and that doesn't count as a move, then in theory you could keep disengaging with 4th Mass until you had four that survived.