Looking for perspectives on marriage

[Aldin]

I saw an article yesterday about a study which recently concluded that cohabiting for four or more years before marriage resulted in a higher percentage of marriages lasting twelve or more years. And I've been pondering the word "marriage" ever since. I need some external perspectives:

What is a marriage, why would someone get married and how does marriage differ from cohabitation?

Potentially I would like to ask follow up questions as well. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything here. Just trying to comprehend some ways of looking at this that are not the same as mine.

~Aldin, seeking other points of view

[flameslayer93]

From an unmarried single 20 year old's perspective...

A marriage is a union between two people, a union bound by love. Cohabitation on the other hand is living together in a boyfriend/girlfriend setting (well, technically any 2 people work, but I dont feel like covering all of the different conditions right now). Love can be what keeps the two together, though they are not bound by it. Both dont feel too good when they end, but only one has somebody losing their house. ^_~

[Grishnakh]

Two mature people committing to spending their lives together is something done on a very personal and deep level. Relationships build on that, along with trust and honesty, are the ones that last. The institution of marriage is a state run concept that worries more about the legal aspects of that relationship. My wife and I were "married" the moment I asked and she said yes. It was our deep commitment to each other that has let our relationship grow and advance for the past 21 years now. We started a conversation back then that's still going strong today. As far as we both were concerned we became legal to the state when we signed the papers one afternoon at the courthouse. Since we are both atheists the idea of a religious ceremony was a foreign concept and one not needed in our case. We did wind up having a more secular ceremony to celebrate our union, but in all honesty that was more for our friends and families sake. By holding our ceremony we allowed them to participate in our joy. If you are religious (and I know that you are) then you've got to wrestle with what marriage means to you and your church. I certainly hope that others here can help you out. Anyway, my perspective.

[Aldin]

Flameslayer, to your perspective then, cohabitation is more of a convenience and marriage is something that happens when the love between two people grows strong enough to bind them?

Grishnakh, to your perspective then, marriage is a legality which formalizes a relationship commitment?

~Aldin, curiosly

[Lazy Orang]

Honestly, I've never seen the point of marriage as a legal institution anyway. The only ways in which official marriage actually effects anything is in the context of religion (and you should know my stance there by now, Aldin ) and the law, which, in my opinion, is very much a cold, hard, logical thing. I don't see why, in what is essentially supposed to be a loving bond between two people (though often it isn't, that is the ideal) you should feel the need to get the law involved, and I'm generally against the whole tax breaks for married couples idea - it's already potentially a two income household now, so I'm not seeing why they should get any perks beyond what most people would do (I know the whole 'moral institution' argument comes up, but I don't see how marriage is more moral than not being married, and religious arguments shouldn't really come into play here as I don't believe religion should come into play in government (at least you Americans have a separation of Church and state, we don't in Britain and I'm tired of Cameron... well, I could stop there, but I'm tired of him going on about us being a Christian nation - hello, Mr. Cameron, you seem to be missing me)). I can sort of see the point of some sort of commitment ceremony if you feel like it, but even that isn't necessary in my opinion, and when religion is removed from the picture, as it is for me, the thought of getting the law involved in something that's supposed to be so personal seems a little strange to me. This is coming from a 15 year old who's never been in a relationship, though, so take it with a pinch of salt.

[Aldin]

LazyO, to your perspective then, marriage is an unnecessary legality and there is no or should be no difference between marriage and cohabitation?

~Aldin, clarifyingly

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Aldin

LazyO, to your perspective then, marriage is an unnecessary legality and there is no or should be no difference between marriage and cohabitation?

~Aldin, clarifyingly

Pretty much - as I said, if you want your own little ceremony as a symbol of it and to declare that you are 'married' as a term to show you consider it more serious, then fine, knock yourself out, but I see no reason for the government and the law to get involved in what is essentially supposed to be an incredibly personal thing. You shouldn't need a legal piece of paper saying that you care about someone. I also think it's unnecessarily restrictive, as relationships do end sometimes (in fact, very often) and a married one has to go through all sorts of hoops to officially 'end'. That being said, there should always be legal grounds for the monetary support of the children from a broken relationship, but that could be done without marriage I think.

[ollie]

I got married for a visa.

Sort of.

In 2003, my now-wife and I had been together almost a decade and had had a joint mortgage for 3(?) years. Not being religious and disliking ceremony meant that we weren't looking to get married. In April I got a job in the US; in June we were married; in August, less than a week before the flight, the visas that meant we could come arrived in the mail.

The decisions (two of them now) to get a joint mortgage and to move to the US together were bigger, I think, than the one to get married. Having a kid too, but that's probably less unusual to consider a bigger deal.

[Owlman]

I believe God created marriage between one man, and one woman. Marriage, to me, is one man and one woman making a public covenant, before God, and before witnesses. I do NOT believe it is ok to divorce your partner, unless the man or woman has committed sexual infidelity. I also do not believe it is ok for a man and a woman to live together under the same roof, unless they are married. (Or obviously they are family or something of that nature, of course.)

Ephesians 5: 21-32 (See below)

http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Eph5.21-33

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Owlman

I believe God created marriage between one man, and one woman. Marriage, to me, is one man and one woman making a public covenant, before God, and before witnesses. I do NOT believe it is ok to divorce your partner, unless the man or woman has committed sexual infidelity. I also do not believe it is ok for a man and a woman to live together under the same roof, unless they are married. (Or obviously they are family or something of that nature, of course.)

Ephesians 5: 21-32 (See below)

http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Eph5.21-33

And here comes the polar opposite of everything I believe. I presume you also believe that the man should have complete power over the woman and she be utterly subservient to him, with the man being in everything the woman's superior, correct? Based on that Ephesians quote, that's what marriage should be. Also, based on the statement you made, you would also be opposed to the idea of divorce if the man is abusing the woman, either emotionally or physically, or abusing the children. You would also say that two people who are married but no longer love each other should stay together even though that would pretty much destroy their lives, because 'God says so'. You also believe in marital inequality, as you are against gay marriage. I'm sorry, but this view of marriage is just destructive.

For the record, I don't want this to turn into another religious debate (that's for the other thread), but I felt I needed to mention this.

[Aldin]

ollie, to your perspective then, marriage can be a useful tool for demonstrating a relationship exists to a legal entity but is otherwise less desirable than cohabitation (or perhaps that marriage and cohabitation are identical pragmatically but the ceremony generally involved in a marriage is undesirable)?

Owlman, to your perspective then, marriage is a Christian religious commitment and is fundamentally different from cohabitation?

~Aldin, inquisitively

[Xorlof]

A broad question, Aldin! Perhaps too broad to get what you're looking for. One could give many types of definitions, and I'm poor at writing definitions, so maybe I'll just talk about some attributes.

Outside of the religious institution of marriage, which can be a whole different animal, I see marriage as a construct created by societies to formerly recognize, (and generally yes, even encourage) "coupling-up" of people for their own and the society's benefit. To that end, there often is greater legal and/or social friction in dissolving a marriage than entering one. People can enter or leave a marriage for their own reasons, but love, attachment, and desire to make a semi-public statement of mutual commitment for purposes of increasing that commitment are often very prominent reasons.

~xorlof, mindfully leaving my signature on for this post