"What's in an Order Marker?" - C3G Style

[dok]

My point is that this "leaders" designation is really just another word for cheerleader. And I prefer the use of the classic term to "leader", which is indistinguishable from "controller" at first glance.

Pengion doesn't have a Crime Lord bonding power; OMs on Penguin's card can only be used to take turns with Penguin. How is he a controller?

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by dok

My point is that this "leaders" designation is really just another word for cheerleader. And I prefer the use of the classic term to "leader", which is indistinguishable from "controller" at first glance.

Pengion doesn't have a Crime Lord bonding power; OMs on Penguin's card can only be used to take turns with Penguin. How is he a controller?

It's on the cards of the squads that bond with Crime Lords. That doesn't count? Anyways, point taken.

I'd place Leaders under Defenders, personally. I suspect there may not be enough of them to justify their own category. As for Cheerleaders, I'm open to giving them their own category, but I, of course prefer distinguishing them as I have. Again, point taken. In any event, I'd really like to see them listed in the Synergy Archive under Passive Powers - those requiring no OMs, along with X OM Powers, Auto Wounders, Auto Killers, etc.

Upon reflection, I'd keep/make the categories in the OP fairly broad, and insert the finer distinctions in the Synergy Archive.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

For example:

OP Categories:

Defenders: Units whose powers help/augment units that are friendly or that you control - as well as classic Defenders.

Nukers: Units with area attack and/or multiple attacks (3 or more).

Assassins: Units with special powers for evasion (Intangibility, Phantom Walk, etc.) and/or offense not already covered by the Nukers category (auto-wound or kill, additional skulls, long range, double attack, etc.).

Disrupters: Units whose powers mess with enemy units' efficiency and ability to act (OM manipulation, involuntary control of enemy units, turn ending, etc.).

Thugs: High offense and defense OM sinks.

Synergy Archive Categories:

Controllers: As above.

Leaders: As above.

Cheerleaders: Units requiring no OMs.

X OM Power Units: Units that utilize the X OM.

Auto-Wounders: Units that wound with 20-sider or unblockable attack die rolls.

Auto-Killers: Units that kill with 20-sider or unblockable attack die rolls.

Explosion and Area Attack Units: Units with those powers.

Temporary or Permanent Involuntary Controllers: Units that can take temporary or permanent control of enemy units.

[dok]

I feel like we've gone off the rails a bit here. The point of the thread, at least in theory, is to categorize units by how, and how often, they use order markers. Some of these distinctions seem to fail to hit those points.

Let me try to categorize again, this time without giving any snappy names, since we seem to be more eager to comment on the names than on the content, at times.

1. Cards that take lots of OMs and can distribute turns efficiently to other heroes/squads.
2. Cards whose role is primarily to give boosts to other cards.
3. Cards whose turns are used to establish a position where they can absorb damage or otherwise prevent your opponent from attacking/damaging/destroying other cards.
4. Cards whose turns are used to deal damage directly, but who may not have a ton of staying power. Work well with the turn distributors (#1 above).
5. Cards that are efficient on offense, but unlike #4 above, are also strong on defense, so they can operate effectively on their own.
6. Cards that are notable for being hard to kill, making them able to outlast opponents that can't focus a lot of attacks on them.
7. Cards whose role is to reduce the efficiency of the opponent's OMs.
8. Cards that don't fit neatly into any the above categories.

With the exception of #7, all of these do have some vague analog in the original Jexik system. In C3G the connotations of each, as well as how they tend to interact, are different, though. But on reflection it might not be as different as we were saying earlier.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by dok

I feel like we've gone off the rails a bit here. The point of the thread, at least in theory, is to categorize units by how, and how often, they use order markers. Some of these distinctions seem to fail to hit those points.

Let me try to categorize again, this time without giving any snappy names, since we seem to be more eager to comment on the names than on the content, at times.

1. Cards that take lots of OMs and can distribute turns efficiently to other heroes/squads.
2. Cards whose role is primarily to give boosts to other cards.
3. Cards whose turns are used to establish a position where they can absorb damage or otherwise prevent your opponent from attacking/damaging/destroying other cards.
4. Cards whose turns are used to deal damage directly, but who may not have a ton of staying power. Work well with the turn distributors (#1 above).
5. Cards that are efficient on offense, but unlike #4 above, are also strong on defense, so they can operate effectively on their own.
6. Cards that are notable for being hard to kill, making them able to outlast opponents that can't focus a lot of attacks on them.
7. Cards whose role is to reduce the efficiency of the opponent's OMs.
8. Cards that don't fit neatly into any the above categories.

With the exception of #7, all of these do have some vague analog in the original Jexik system. In C3G the connotations of each, as well as how they tend to interact, are different, though. But on reflection it might not be as different as we were saying earlier.

Wow! Holy Succinctness, dok! Pretty definitive list. 3 & 7 overlap a bit, but that's a nit. What cards did you have in mind for 8? I'm not even going to attempt naming at this point.

[dok]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

What cards did you have in mind for 8?

Matter Eater Lad, whose value is highly situational? Beast Boy, who does kind of a unique thing and can't really be categorized in his base form? To pick a figure that actually does well on the Power Rankings, Arnim Zola is sort of a bunch of things but not quite anything.

I'm thinking there might be one other category worth mentioning for C3G:

9. Cards that can move or take turns without OMs and add efficiency to other figure's turns.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Where's that Eating Popcorn icon when you need it? You're on a roll, dok. You need no more comments from the gallery.

[IAmBatman]

One thing that's really interesting in C3G, strategically, that isn't really covered in the premise of Jexik's classic Order Marker thread is sometimes it's very easy in C3G to know who to put your Order Markers on (due to so many hubs), but deciding who to activate and give turns to is dicier.

For instance, in a Professor X build, Prof X has all of my Order Markers until he dies. But who I use him to activate becomes a lot more interesting. And I probably activate some figures a lot more due to having his double activation than I would if I had to place Order Markers on them alone and make that my whole turn (Angel's carry has a lot more utility when Angel's attack isn't all you're getting for your turn, etc.).

I'm not sure how much difference there is between saying "this is how often I'd put an Order Marker on this card" and "this is how often I'd activate a card," but I do think there are at least some interesting nuances there.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

I'm guessing Cable is a bit of a Hub, due to Mercenary Field Commander. I'm fielding him on 9/9 (with the Gang of Four) with my Mercenary custom, Captain Kei (a 240 point, melee multi-attacker), Jean Grey, and Omega Red. OM decisions will be generally easy, due to the diversity of their roles - at least initially.

Of course, I could have drafted all Mutants, including Prof X, and produced a stronger army. When you are creating armies in C3G, how do you justify weaker armies?

[IAmBatman]

I never have to justify fun.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I never have to justify fun.

I love playing crap that I think I can win with. It's so satisfying Heck, I entered a hodgepodge OM nightmare pair of armies into an SLH event that was based off the four elements BECAUSE I COULD.

~Dysole, in an online event with MacDirks and Deathstalkers so...yeah