Public Design Workshop

[Lazy Orang]

I've never played the games, but what about, instead of starting with his own personal cardboard box (which does feel a little silly - does he just find them or are they genuinely part of his equipment?) he could have some kind of stealth power that interacted with DOs. Then, you could release him with a Cardboard Box DO that could be placed on the battlefield on certain maps/scenarios that he works particularly well with (i.e. maybe he could be placed on a DO's card to represent hiding within/behind it, and at the end of any round, if any figure is on a Cardboard Box's card the player controlling that figure may move the Cardboard Box X spaces, just as an idea).

[johnny139]

I was going to suggest the same thing as LO - an "IN PLAIN SIGHT" power that lets him use obstacles and DOs for cover. And for fun we can probably design a cardboard box to throw on the battlefield.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I've never played the games, but what about, instead of starting with his own personal cardboard box (which does feel a little silly - does he just find them or are they genuinely part of his equipment?) he could have some kind of stealth power that interacted with DOs. Then, you could release him with a Cardboard Box DO that could be placed on the battlefield on certain maps/scenarios that he works particularly well with (i.e. maybe he could be placed on a DO's card to represent hiding within/behind it, and at the end of any round, if any figure is on a Cardboard Box's card the player controlling that figure may move the Cardboard Box X spaces, just as an idea).

Originally Posted by johnny139

I was going to suggest the same thing as LO - an "IN PLAIN SIGHT" power that lets him use obstacles and DOs for cover. And for fun we can probably design a cardboard box to throw on the battlefield.

Much better. It work well with the Crate DO's I've had drafted for years. It would give me an excuse to do them and use them more.

We have jungle and shadow powers of camouflage and defense boosts, Snake can be a DO version of these.

Perhaps look at Bob, Agent of Hydra for some inspiration.

HIDING PLACES 301
When adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with a height higher than Bob's base, Bob cannot be targeted for an attack by a non-adjacent figure.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by Tornado

It should only work for Snake.

My idea was that any small/medium figure (or maybe just small+Snake?) could hide inside it, but only Snake is stealthy enough to get away with moving around inside of it. I can imagine a member of the Power Pack or Newt from Aliens hiding from a more powerful enemy in a cardboard box.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

(which does feel a little silly - does he just find them or are they genuinely part of his equipment?)

Well, he’s a video game character. He finds it in the field, but once he snags it, it’s part of his kit for the rest of the game, and it’s usually one of the earlier items you get.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

he could have some kind of stealth power that interacted with DOs. Then, you could release him with a Cardboard Box DO that could be placed on the battlefield on certain maps/scenarios that he works particularly well with (i.e. maybe he could be placed on a DO's card to represent hiding within/behind it, and at the end of any round, if any figure is on a Cardboard Box's card the player controlling that figure may move the Cardboard Box X spaces, just as an idea).

Originally Posted by johnny139

I was going to suggest the same thing as LO - an "IN PLAIN SIGHT" power that lets him use obstacles and DOs for cover. And for fun we can probably design a cardboard box to throw on the battlefield.

I do like this idea a lot. It’ll generally make him more stealthy as well without needing to rely on the box. Maybe tie it together with some light general stealth ability so he can be sneak around even when there aren’t DOs.

SNAKE IN THE GRASS
Opponent’s figures not within 4 clear sight spaces of Snake can not target him for any attack or special power that requires clear sight. When adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with a height higher than Snake’s base, Snake cannot be targeted for an attack by a non-adjacent figure.

I like the idea of placing him on a DO’s card to represent him hiding, but I also think that could get awkward. How is he hiding in a T-Sphere or a Ruin? I guess he could just be hiding behind the ruin really well but it might still be confusing for players.

[japes]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

My idea was that any small/medium figure (or maybe just small+Snake?) could hide inside it, but only Snake is stealthy enough to get away with moving around inside of it. I can imagine a member of the Power Pack or Newt from Aliens hiding from a more powerful enemy in a cardboard box.

Well, he’s a video game character. He finds it in the field, but once he snags it, it’s part of his kit for the rest of the game, and it’s usually one of the earlier items you get.

I do like this idea a lot. It’ll generally make him more stealthy as well without needing to rely on the box. Maybe tie it together with some light general stealth ability so he can be sneak around even when there aren’t DOs.

I like the idea of placing him on a DO’s card to represent him hiding, but I also think that could get awkward. How is he hiding in a T-Sphere or a Ruin? I guess he could just be hiding behind the ruin really well but it might still be confusing for players.

You can stipulate a minimum size for the DO.

Also I don't like the bold part. I don't think it's necessary for theme. If he's in the middle of the street he shouldn't be invisible.

I'd probably change it to "with a height of 3 or higher" as I don't think he should be able to hide behind a Manhole cover

[MrNobody]

Fair enough on the first point. I think it would be nice to give him something stealthy to do when there isn’t a hiding spot around. I don’t think it’s like the character to just be a total sitting duck, even when out in the open.

The second point, I’m going to have to disagree with you. The stealthiest dude in the whole MGS universe shouldn’t be worse at hiding than Bob, Agent of Hydra.

[Yodaking]

I played the early Metal Gear Solid games but not the recent ones. That mini is a good option for him. I don't like the Cardboard Box idea either, it's a pretty ridiculous idea that it would actually work. If a large cardboard box suddenly appeared out of nowhere on an active battlefield, Deathstroke would just shoot the box to be safe, it's not like cardboard is going to provide any protection so hiding inside it would actually make it easier to hit Snake since he's not moving and can't see that a guy is about to shoot at him.

[japes]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Fair enough on the first point. I think it would be nice to give him something stealthy to do when there isn’t a hiding spot around. I don’t think it’s like the character to just be a total sitting duck, even when out in the open.

The second point, I’m going to have to disagree with you. The stealthiest dude in the whole MGS universe shouldn’t be worse at hiding than Bob, Agent of Hydra.

I misread the last part. I read it as the DO needing to be as tall as he was. It's an odd wording since he can't be adjacent to an object below his base per standard rules it basically says any Do with height.



But side note, being the stealthiest person in your own universe isn't really a justification of much. I'm the stealthiest person in my office and home but I'm still not a Ninja.

[Yodaking]

This is the power I came up with to represent Snake Eyes stealth/hiding abilities, he always just disappeared and reappeared in the middle of a battle. Maybe Solid Snake could do something similar.

MOVE WITH THE WIND
If Snake Eyes is unengaged and has not yet attacked this round, he may not be targeted for a non-adjacent attack.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by japes

But side note, being the stealthiest person in your own universe isn't really a justification of much. I'm the stealthiest person in my office and home but I'm still not a Ninja.

The thing is, you'd never know if there was someone stealthier because they wouldn't get caught. You could be surrounded by ninjas at this very moment...

Fair point, but what I meant (and should've said) was that Snake is a dude who's the best at sneaking in a universe filled with dudes who are good at sneaking. It's like being the yellowest person in the Simpsons universe.

Originally Posted by Yodaking

This is the power I came up with to represent Snake Eyes stealth/hiding abilities, he always just disappeared and reappeared in the middle of a battle. Maybe Solid Snake could do something similar.

MOVE WITH THE WIND
If Snake Eyes is unengaged and has not yet attacked this round, he may not be targeted for a non-adjacent attack.

I could see that working as a representation of the "alert mode" part of the game. Once he fires his loud gun, everyone knows where he is.

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I played the early Metal Gear Solid games but not the recent ones.

I don't know how many you've played, but 3 is considered by many to be the best one (I personally like 2 the best) and then 4 completes the story for the most part. I'd say if you haven't you should try to play those. 5 has some amazing gameplay but is really let down by a lame story and doesn't have enough new/different objectives to keep the game feeling fresh if you want to 100% it.

I don't like the Cardboard Box idea either, it's a pretty ridiculous idea that it would actually work. If a large cardboard box suddenly appeared out of nowhere on an active battlefield, Deathstroke would just shoot the box to be safe, it's not like cardboard is going to provide any protection so hiding inside it would actually make it easier to hit Snake since he's not moving and can't see that a guy is about to shoot at him.

I think there's a discussion to be had here. Are ridiculous things happening allowed if they happen in the story the character is from, or should C3G try to keep some sort of internal consistency? Doctor Who is actually a perfect example. It is ridiculous for a man with celery on his jacket to trespass onto a military base and have all the soldiers doing what he says by the end of the hour. It's ridiculous that the Doctor is so good at BSing that he can talk evil aliens out of shooting him, and so good at running away that the same aliens never actually hit him. However, this is also how the character works in their own universe. Same goes for Snake. Yes it's silly that a trained mercenary would turn around, see a cardboard box sitting where it wasn't two seconds ago, and think nothing of it. but it's also how the character works. It also doesn't make sense that the Flash doesn't destroy his body running so fast, or that all these guys got powers from radiation. I'm not trying to mount a defense for the Box power or anything like that, I'm just interested in where everyone thinks the line should be drawn.

[MrNobody]

NAME = SOLID SNAKE
SECRET IDENTITY = DAVID

SPECIES = CLONE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SOLDIER
PERSONALITY = GUARDED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ???

TACTICAL ESPIONAGE ACTION
When adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with a height higher than Snake’s base, Snake cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. Snake may attack with his normal attack any time before, during or after moving as long as he is on a space where he could end his movement.

FAMAS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 4.
When Snake attacks with FAMAS Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. Roll 1 less attack die for each subsequent attack.

STEALTH TAKEDOWN 3
If Snake attacks an adjacent figure that he was not engaged with at the start of the turn, add 3 dice to his attack and subtract 1 die from his attack for each Order Marker on the defending figure’s card.

So I spent a few hours thinking about this. My main problem with the Bob-style approach was that it limited how much sneaking (the main purpose of the character) he could do in flatter areas, so I kept trying to come up with stealth powers that would work even on a completely flat map. But none of them really rang true to the character or the mechanics of Heroscape. Finally I came to this approach, which I'm hoping is a more accurate marriage of the two games' mechanics.

Snake isn't sneaky because he's invisible while standing in plain sight. He's sneaky because he can run out, take out an enemy, then get back to a hiding spot before the enemy's friends turn around. So now, he can be in hiding at the start of his turn, run out and either go for the neck snap or shoot at someone, and then be back in cover before his turn ends. But if he risks it with the FAMAS or fails a neck snap, he's going to get caught and be a fairly squishy target.

Sure I'm bummed I didn't get the Box somewhere on the card, but I think this feels more accurate to the character than what I had before. He doesn't defy basic logic, but he can still be the sneaky BA he should be. Thoughts? Those of you who are more familiar with the character, does this feel right to you?

EDIT: Fun fact I just remembered; Metal Gear has been in C3G before. The comic art for the SHIELD Sniper is a doctored picture of the character Sniper Wolf from MGS1. I figure everyone probably already knew that, but it’s kinda cool.

[Yodaking]

Good move going with a SA for the triple attack. That last one is a bit too much though, 7 attack is Superman level and he gets to subtract defense dice as well. I really like the defense reduction mechanic here though where it's based on Order Markers, seems new and innovative, -4 for for an OM hog would be crazy though. Maybe have it based on revealed OM's, so he's getting a bonus on people who have already acted (ie. someone on patrol walks past him without seeing him, then he pops out behind them and attacks). Combined with the first power he could pop out from behind a tree, strangle someone, then pop back into hiding somewhere.