Age of Annihilation - Backer Trend and Discussion

[nyys]

That's the sort of the sense I'm getting. When they say retail I think they mean FLGS. The days of finding Scape in Target or Walmart are over from what I understand.

Though maybe if this campaign gets things rolling maybe they'll be able to charge less because their 'algorithm' says that since the campaign was a success they can still make money charging less because they know stuff will sell

[rudyvalentine]

Yeah I wasn’t expecting this would ever show up in big box retail stores. What they are offering for $250 is a steal. A complete master set of units and terrain, enough extra units to amount to another two expansion waves, two terrain expansions. Even by old pricing standards, the value is there (without the paint of course).

So that’s why the we can’t offer a lower price point doesn’t make sense to me. They’re not going to make this Vanguard Edition a retail set, so why not offer options that are similar or the same as what will go to retail during this campaign? They’re going to have to do larger print runs for retail anyway.

[Shurrig]

Someone mentioned (not sure if it was here or elsewhere) that it'd be cool to get a nerf Sgt. Drake's katana, but I wanna see a nerf Marro Stinger gun!!

[artemiscorso]

I'm sure there are a lot of costs involved other than the amount of plastic in the box, and I understand inflation has made it hard to even estimate prices based off of our old model. I think the problem I'm having is that a main selling point of this set seems to be the huge amount of figures, and therefore I need to be a little more interested in those figures. It's not that the figures are bad per se, just that I don't feel strongly about them.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by rudyvalentine

So if this is the new pricing environment for scape does this mean future expansions will also be a lot more expensive? I know the old release model of 5-6 painted minis for $12.99 isn’t realistic anymore, but if they release expansions that are 10 minis or less, are we looking at a $50-75 price tag?

Will a terrain pack with some trees or a castle set be the same thing?

I don’t think Heroscape is that kind of a game. Accessibility was one of its core strengths and it seems like that no longer exists with the cost of things now.

How did they put out a retail Heroquest box last year for $125 (I know it’s smaller minis, multiples of the same sculpts, no plastic terrain)? And the expansions are between $35-50. But that means Heroscape expansions with bigger, higher quality minis realistically would probably in the $75 range.

And if it’s economies of scale to drive this down, how do they feel they will have that with a goal of 8000 units sold (not even 8000 individual backers). Are they going to print retail releases in the 10’s of thousands?

Yeah, I imagine it'd probably be like $500, if not seemingly more apparently, to get everything individually retail, plus you won't get the exclusives. People will for sure be upset on seeing that it'll cost probably close to what the vanguard set cost to get just specifically a faction they want and say forget it.

To me, seeing how hard it has been to hit the bare minimum to be cost effective for Hasbro to manufacture this doesn't scream "full power on season 2!!!" Hitting close to the five listed stretch goals does.....but yeah....... There had been no direct guarantee for a reason.

I really wouldn't bet on us getting a split version of this in the future. If you want this, now is probably the time. I know it's the holiday purchase season and it's too late to have been saving sense August. But the PayPal delayed payment plan is an option. Just don't justify buying like 5 sets thinking, "oh, I can handle that later on." Heroscape just isn't a buy $50 worth in a year kind of game, unless you want the same two armies on the same field four the most part. Shame AOTP couldn't prove otherwise.

I'm just buying one. The trees and walls aren't enough to justify more buys of all unique figs and the basics of dice, markers, rules books and etc. It looks like a solid amount of walls, and my aquarium trees I've found along with these new trees are plenty for me. If the terrain tiles weren't the basics, and were basically all ice, snow, road, lava, molten lava, swamp, dungeon, shadow, bigger sand shapes with quicksand rules and other terrain types with interesting field rule changes, that would maybe get me to buy two.

At this point with the aftermarket of OG scape, unless you're getting SOTM and ROTV stuff, for the most part, you're only getting like 4 heroes, two squads or one terrain for $75-100. It might be worth it to save up a little more with the payment plan and get a lot more stuff that you might grow to like after actually playing them.

[SuperSamyon]

In reference to the topic of this thread, I'm not interested in doomsday posting the campaign but one must admit the backed trend is looking rather bleak. We went from needing 160-170 a day to now needing 240-255 a day. In the last week the campaign has really stalled out and it looks like the buzz around the campaign has dispersed. Even the AH discord seems to be more quiet lately with a handful of regular posters being greeted by a few visitors a day.

I would be interested to see if AH has any other marketing plans for this week or next. I don't think there are any more influences they can tap into so they would have to go a more traditional advertising avenue.

Whats even more unfortunate to consider is lately there have been a lot of individuals commenting that they are buying more boxes for investment purposes. If they are to be believed, the additional purchases we saw this week may not be from new buyers but from existing buyers further showing that the market is really tapped out.

I'm beginning to believe there are roughly 3000 active nostalgic Heroscape players within the community and asking 2 million from them is a tall ask regardless if you do the tiered approach or not. It's clear that it's new player or bust at this point.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

In reference to the topic of this thread, I'm not interested in doomsday posting the campaign but one must admit the backed trend is looking rather bleak. We went from needing 160-170 a day to now needing 240-255 a day. In the last week the campaign has really stalled out and it looks like the buzz around the campaign has dispersed. Even the AH discord seems to be more quiet lately with a handful of regular posters being greeted by a few visitors a day.

I would be interested to see if AH has any other marketing plans for this week or next. I don't think there are any more influences they can tap into so they would have to go a more traditional advertising avenue.

Whats even more unfortunate to consider is lately there have been a lot of individuals commenting that they are buying more boxes for investment purposes. If they are to be believed, the additional purchases we saw this week may not be from new buyers but from existing buyers further showing that the market is really tapped out.

I'm beginning to believe there are roughly 3000 active nostalgic Heroscape players within the community and asking 2 million from them is a tall ask regardless if you do the tiered approach or not. It's clear that it's new player or bust at this point.

The only two real markets are new players looking for a less intense Warhammer experience, which will be impressed with what's being offered compared to $250 of Warhammer, and on the fence nostalgia players that probably sold their stuff or haven't touched it in ten years and need a little more something to push into a purchase.

[rudyvalentine]

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

I'm beginning to believe there are roughly 3000 active nostalgic Heroscape players within the community and asking 2 million from them is a tall ask regardless if you do the tiered approach or not. It's clear that it's new player or bust at this point.

Which is exactly why tiers were necessary here. New players aren’t lining up to put down $250 on an out of print game they never played and have no nostalgia for.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by rudyvalentine

Which is exactly why tiers were necessary here. New players aren’t lining up to put down $250 on an out of print game they never played and have no nostalgia for.

Yeah, their belief in new players interest isn't currently happening. Maybe they should've waiting until aught nostalgia is more of a thing over 80's and 90's nostalgia. We could probably get up to 4K of some super diehards really push it, but they're going to need to find 4K more new individual set purchasers.

[caps]

Originally Posted by nyys

As much as I would love that as well, I don't think it's that simple. The AH team has mentioned that even a third of the stuff wouldn't cut the price in half.

The way it sounds to me, a $100 box would have 6-10 figures and not nearly enough terrain to make a board from. We wouldn't be getting the Scape experience.

The cost landscape has changed too much unfortunately since Scape's debut.

I would guess more figures than that, but still not a lot. Maybe closer to $20? I don't think the retail prices will be *quite* as high as people are saying. I would compare to other unpainted minis games: Star Wars Legion, Marvel CP, Warcry, Battletech, Kill Team, X-Wing, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Heroscape is on the cheaper end of those.

[caps]

For example, a Star Wars Legion starter set is $100 and contains:
33 Miniature Figures, 8 Plastic Barricades, 15 Dice, 1 Round Counter, 35 Improvement Cards, 3 Displacement Templates, 12 Battle Cards:14 Command Cards, 8 Unit Cards, 1 Scope Ruler, 107 Miscellaneous Counters and 1 Learning Booklet

The Warcry Red Harvest starter set is $130 or so and contains:
1 x Red Harvest book
10 x Darkoath Savagers warband. The warband includes:
1 x Slaughtermaster
1 x God-speaker
1 x Wrathtouched
2 x Proven
5 x Gloryseekers
13 x Tarantulos Brood warband. The warband includes:
1 x Broodmaster
2 x Doomweavers
7 x Broodkin
3 x Spider Swarms
A 28-piece set of scenery – including
1 x pit dredger
1 x varanite syphon
2x wooden structures
2x ladders
2x wooden gangways
12x modular sluice segments
6x spiked barricades
2x spiked gangways
A double-sided 22″ x 30″ folding gaming board
Tokens
Dice
Cards

[caps]

Note that Games Workshop products (so Warcry and Kill Team) are generally considered overpriced / high priced.

Kill Team Starter Set: $85 on Amazon right now, $100 retail:

1 x 96-page mini Core Rules
1 x 56-page Recruit Book
23 x Citadel Miniatures
11 Death Korps of Krieg Veteran Guardsmen (there are only ten in the photo above, as I didn’t build the variant of the Veteran Guardsman medic who has a bag on its own base this time around)
12 Ork Kommandos (well, 10 kommados, a bomb squig and a sneaky grot)
12 x Scenery
6 x Kill Team Barricades
6 x Ork terrain pieces
3 x Combat Gauges
2 x Transfer Sheets
Double-sided game mat
Kill Team token sheet containing 85 tokens
10 x Dice