Climb and Engagement

[artemiscorso]

Beautiful orb weaver there, nice photo.

[pinche_guey]

Here's a link to the original discussion.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=18186

[White Noise]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Using the example on the left, a dwarf on the green circle would be engaged with a spider on the blue/cyan circle and not with one on the orange circle or at any point during the spider's climb to the blue/cyan circle.

Using the example on the right with the ladder, engagement would happen when the spider was on the ladder and continue to the final stop on the blue/cyan circle.

(yeah, I just wanted a reason to use the image again )

Wow, I've been gone a while...
Anyway, my question concerned the spider moving to the height 2 space (and using climb for some reason) with the enemy figure on the height 4 space. The spider would be climbing from the orenge circle to the yellow(?) circle. As a quirk of the climb ability its height would become 6 while climbing the wall, I was wondering if it would take a leaving engagement attack while moving. I've already gotten an answer (the height change would not cause it to become momentarily engaged because engagement is only checked on hexes and not in between), although the link on the previous post is making me wonder, and it really boils down to when climb kicks in. Does it occur after the spider begins to climb a ledge that is impossible to climb without the climb ability kicking in, or does it occur beforehand so it can begin climbing a ledge that it couldn't otherwise?

[jschild]

I still say it is far, far simplier to goes by the assumption that their is no actual tripling of height as its solely a mechanic to allow low height creatures to be able to climb up obstacles higher than they would otherwise allowed.

Simply saying that they are good climbers and thus can climb 2 or 3x their height (and not that they grow 2 or 3 times larger) avoids any problem neatly as then they are never considered more than 2 height for engagement purposes.

[ollie]

Originally Posted by jschild

I still say it is far, far simplier to goes by the assumption that their is no actual tripling of height as its solely a mechanic to allow low height creatures to be able to climb up obstacles higher than they would otherwise allowed.

Simply saying that they are good climbers and thus can climb 2 or 3x their height (and not that they grow 2 or 3 times larger) avoids any problem neatly as then they are never considered more than 2 height for engagement purposes.

Simpler perhaps from an intuitive-understanding perspective, but wrong. Doing the opposite of what the card says is probably not a good precedent for when an issue arises for which it does make a difference to what happens in practice.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Fyorlag Spiders Army Card

When moving up or down levels of terrain, Fyorlag Spiders may tripple their height.

The Climb ability says that the spiders may triple their height when moving up or down levels of terrain. Since their height is only tripled while moving, engagement isn't affected in any way.

[jschild]

Originally Posted by killercactus

The Climb ability says that the spiders may triple their height when moving up or down levels of terrain. Since their height is only tripled while moving, engagement isn't affected in any way.

Thus making it far simplier to just say their height is always 2 and not variable.

[ollie]

Originally Posted by jschild

Thus making it far simplier to just say their height is always 2 and not variable.

How would you reword the card if given the chance? I'm not convinced it'll turn out any simpler.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by ollie

How would you reword the card if given the chance? I'm not convinced it'll turn out any simpler.

It's fine the way it is. When the spiders are moving up or down, their Height is 6. When they're standing still, their Height is 2.

Engagement is only checked when they're standing still. I don't see the problem.....

[ollie]

Originally Posted by killercactus

It's fine the way it is. When the spiders are moving up or down, their Height is 6. When they're standing still, their Height is 2.

Engagement is only checked when they're standing still. I don't see the problem.....

I agree with you; I was curious to see what jschild was seeing that we aren't here.

[Aldin]

I'm with jschild on this one. We're saying the same thing, mostly, but he's saying it in a way that doesn't make your brain want to freeze up. Since it only occurs while moving and is clearly intended to offer the ability to climb higher/lower, the power is only telling you how to judge height for those purposes. It isn't actually telling you that the figure miraculously becomes bigger.

The addendum, if they wanted to make the power longer for no appreciable purpose, would be "...for the purpose of determining how many hexes can be climbed and/or whether rolling for falling damage may be necessary". But that addendum is understood in the initiating phrase "When moving", because height doesn't have any other purpose while moving than in determining those two thing.

~Aldin, semantically

[White Noise]

Originally Posted by Aldin

But that addendum is understood in the initiating phrase "When moving", because height doesn't have any other purpose while moving than in determining those two thing.
~Aldin, semantically

Except for when checking for engagement (a spider moving away from a figure 2 levels higher does not take leaving engagement while a dwarf does).

~White Noise, quoting the above poster