The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Instead of trying to convince C3V, you all should start your own group and make customs out of the Arena sets. There are a ton of great designers here and I think a new group designing fantasy customs would be well received.

A new group will surely need to be created for it, but if it is going to amount to anything, the C3V/SoV need to be overseeing it, and approving what it creates as it progresses. A small group, or even a single person, can do whatever they want, but I can promise you that without the backing of the C3V/SoV it will never amount to anything like what is being proposed here. No one cares about a random person's customs. They care about their own customs, the C3V/SoV's customs, and maybe their friend's customs. The C3V/SoV has a reputation tied to it, and there's nothing any of us can do about that. The idea is to have a large amount of easily accessible figures, that represent a jumping on point for new players that want to experience the C3V/SoV. This isn't the same as some random group of players, that happened to make a list of neat customs. This is the C3V/SoV. This is the largest, and most widely tournament approved list of custom creations. There's a certain amount of respect that is automatically given to anything that gets into that "Books of" thread. This idea is meaningless by comparison without the backing of the C3V/SoV. No one would really care in the end. They might initially care, and try it out for a few weeks, to a few months. In a year, it will just be like the CHCG24. The C3V/SoV are used at serious tournaments, I mean, as serious as current Heroscape can get. The proposed project is a massive undertaking. Multiple designers, and countless playtests will need to be done, and from people who have an idea of what they are doing too, not just your average Heroscaper, taking a 101 crash course on how to do it. I can promise you that every single one of the figures in the Arena of the Planeswalkers sets has had many custom cards created for it, but those customs are no different than the literal tens of thousands of customs that have been posted in this very forum, or the hundreds of random customs you can buy off ebay. Do this without the C3V/SoV, and it will be no different. Why should anyone care about My customs? Or Your customs? They don't. They have no reason to. The C3V, like it or not, are the most cared about customs. (outside of the C3G, but that's because it is directed at a super hero customs, and doesn't work for people who want to expand their classic scape.) They are celebrities of the Heroscape scene. People care about what they do.

[Tornado]

I completely reject the notion that only C3V can make solid cards. The SoV cards are mostly made by individuals and those are C3V approved.
I think you are selling short the abilities of the extremely talented designers on this site.
I do think, as I already stated, it needs to be a group effort but it does not have to be C3V.
If no one else pays attention, who cares? Collaborate, have fun and create the cards you desire and the rest will work itself out.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I completely reject the notion that only C3V can make solid cards. The SoV cards are mostly made by individuals and those are C3V approved.
I think you are selling short the abilities of the extremely talented designers on this site.
I do think, as I already stated, it needs to be a group effort but it does not have to be C3V.
If no one else pays attention, who cares? Collaborate, have fun and create the cards you desire and the rest will work itself out.

The point of this thread is flying over your head, my friend. It's a post made by C3V/SoV/VC/whatever you want to call it fans who want to easy entry point to that, not just a bunch of custom cards, whatever their quality.

It's like if I posted in HoSS that I wanted a box of Star Wars figures designed and you told me to just create my own group and do it myself. I don't want my own customs group's cards - I want HoSS.

If you're not seeing the value provided by the big-name established groups around here, I'm not sure what to tell you.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I completely reject the notion that only C3V can make solid cards. The SoV cards are mostly made by individuals and those are C3V approved.
I think you are selling short the abilities of the extremely talented designers on this site.
I do think, as I already stated, it needs to be a group effort but it does not have to be C3V.
If no one else pays attention, who cares? Collaborate, have fun and create the cards you desire and the rest will work itself out.

I know it wasn't very clear in my post, but I in no way intended to say that only the C3V can make solid cards. I meant that most people won't care, unless it's C3V/SoV.

If it isn't the C3V, then there's nothing to speak to the polish of the designs. Yes, you and I know that certain creators on this site are very talented, and basically anything they make will be pretty good, but the average newcomer doesn't know that, and they don't care. I know I didn't when I was new. With experience comes an understanding that new comers don't have, and we need to be looking at this with a perspective of a newcomer. They who are looking to expand their own classic scape because official stuff is expensive, and most random customs are not great, but "hey I heard the C3V makes some pretty good stuff."

If no one pays attention, that's all fine and good for my own customs, I don't expect much attention until I start trying to get through the SoV with something. That attention isn't there because of me though, it's there because everyone has a level of expectation, when it comes to the polish of an SoV design. The community looks very critically at things when anything is put through the SoV. The SoV demands that, and so does the C3V. That's why it has it's reputation, and as a result, that is why the average newcomer cares.

[Tornado]

Considering C3V's current hard stance on pre-painted minis, what are the chances of a C3V Arena set actually happening?
I am just going off from the responses like the following and offering an alternative option that could be a rewarding experience and be the beginning of something special.

We don’t have a use for a mountain of translucent minis, either. As I said, we don’t need the minis.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Considering C3V's current hard stance on pre-painted minis, what are the chances of a C3V Arena set actually happening?
I am just going off from the responses like the following and offering an alternative option that could be a rewarding experience and be the beginning of something special.

It's little less of a hard stance recently, with the announcement of a 3D printed figure.

Also Dad_Scaper was voicing his opinion. It's a common opinion, but it is an opinion. I don't completely agree with it, because I like the value of adding that level of easy to access figures, that can be purchased for cheap. A jumping on point for a big group like this has a lot of potential, and I like the idea, even using the unpainted non-translucent figures, just because of the value it would add.

I'm going to leave now. It's almost 6am and I need to sleep.

[IAmBatman]

I'd say roughly the same chances as HoSS making lightsabers into equipment glyphs. Possible, but unlikely.

I'm not sure if I see the value in trying to directly compete with an established and respected group like C3V by starting a new project, no matter how special the results might be. I remember quite a few fledgling groups that tried to get results in Superheroscape. I don't have to tell you the results.

[Tornado]

You could always go the SoV route. Form a group to submit Arena customs to SoV. If they continue to reject the designs solely based on the minis then you will know it will never happen in C3V. If they do then you just opened the door to a whole new world of customs.

[IAmBatman]

SoV is always an option - though a slow one for getting the entire set through (not that C3V wouldn't move slowly on that either). Perhaps getting a few figures from that box in through SoV will help solidify the case for C3V considering it.

I do agree with working within the established system in order to accomplish the goals outlined in the OP, though. A new, independent project doesn't seem like a fit for those goals, IMO.

[Tornado]

The alternative is to do nothing. If years pass and things are the same then what?
Plead more?

[IAmBatman]

I'm not disagreeing with you about SoV being a good route. I'm just establishing reasonable expectations. The ideal would be for all of VC to get on board and work together, of course, but that's in the control of a few and they got there for a reason, and know the project better than we do.

[NecroBlade]

I mean, this was my suggestion for a reason...:

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

One concern I do have is how this project should be tackled. IMO, it's too large for the C3V to do exclusively internally (given that ideally the units flow from start to finish at about the same pace). Throwing this out there to get the conversation going, but I would like to see a community-driven project that breaks the above potential designs into a few smaller groups. Let the public vote on VC members and other high profile community members to lead each group. Then the groups publicly (i.e. the Heroscape community at large) tackle everything from design to playtesting, with the elected members mainly acting to keep the processes moving and step in when something breaks down.