Classic Heroscape Power Rankings

[kevindola]

Here is a list of 72 armies that were made using this list that were ranked B or lower (530 points, 20 figures):

Spoiler Alert!

MegaSilver:
* Omnicron Repulsors x3, Omnicron Snipers x2, Taelord
* Spiders x4, Sujoah, Wyvern, Estivara
* Arrow Gruts x4, Swog Rider x2, Ice Troll x2, Mimring
* Kato Katsuro, Raelin V2, Ashigaru Harquebus x2, Ashigaru Yari x2

Soundwarp SG-1:
* Granite Guardians x5, Guilty McCreech
* Omnicron Snipers x4, Omnicron Repulsors x2, Arkmer
* Shades of Bleakwoode x4, Kee-Mo-Shi
* Anubian Wolves x6, Khosumet

Dysole:
* Aubrien Archers x6, Acolarh
* Ashigaru Harquebus x4, Ogre Warhulk, Sudema
* Marro Drones x6, Deathwalker 8000, Brandis Skyhunter
* Gorillinators x3, Nakita Agents, Evar Scarcarver, Guilty McCreech

Kinseth:
* Spiders x3, Sujoah, Wyvern, Estivara, Guilty McCreech
* Shaolin Monks x3, Master Win Chiu Woo, Syvarris, Tarn Vikings
* Wolves of Badru x3, White Wyrmling x5, Werewolf Lord
* Marro Drones x3, Frost Giant of Mohr, Nakita Agents, Siege

vegie's dad:
* Warriors of Ashra x5, Shurrak, Nakita Agents
* Ashigaru Harquebus x4, Taelord, Syvarris
* Anubian Wolves x6, Khosumet
* Arrow Gruts x4, Swog Rider x4, Mimring, Raelin V2

simval:
* Granite Guardians x3, Gurei-Oni, Warden 816, Blue Wyrmling x1
* Arrow Gruts x4, Swog Rider x4, Mimring, Ice Troll Berserker, Guilty McCreech
* Blade Gruts x4, Raelin V2, Tornak, Ornak, Iskra Esenwein
* Warriors of Ashra x5, Taelord, Syvarris

mtl1998:
* Tagawa Samurai Archers x3, Jotun, Rhogar Dragonspine
* Maarden Hounds x3, Su-Bak-Na, Syvarris
* Anubian Wolves x3, Raelin V2, Brunak, Khosumet
* Aubrien Archers x4, Mimring, Iskra Esenwein, Rechets of Bogdan

vegietarian18:
* Anubian Wolves x6, Khosumet
* Arrow Gruts x3, Swog Rider x3, Nakita Agents, Raelin V2, Ice Troll Berserker, Otonashi
* Quasatch Hunters x4, Tagawa Samurai
* Marro Drones x6, Su-Bak-Na, Iskra Esenwein

belgarath:
* Blade Gruts x4, Ornak, Tornak, Sonlen
* Marro Drones x5, Marro Hive, Syvarris, Otonashi
* Protectors of Ullar x4, Feral Troll
* Kato Katsuro, Ashigaru Harquebus x2, Ashigaru Yari x2, Tagawa Samurai

ScapeRaider:
* Ulginesh, Johrdwan, Chardris, Emirroon, Arkmer, Izumi Samurai
* Arrow Gruts x3, Swog Rider x3, Mimring, Ice Troll Berserker x2, Otonashi
* Blue Wyrmling x6, White Wyrmling x6, Werewolf Lord
* Marro Drones x6, Su-Bak-Na, Johnny Shotgun Sullivan

Cat Attack Man:
* Arrow Gruts x3, Swog Rider x2, Mimring, Master of the Hunt, Deepwyrm Drow x1
* Tagawa Samurai Archers x2, Tagawa Samurai, Ninjas of the Northern Wind, Kozuke Samurai, Izumi Samurai
* Microcorp Agents x2, Siege, Mika Connour, Agent Carr
* Ulginesh, Johrdawn, Syvarris, Chardris, Emirroon, Otonashi

Black_Charos:
* Marro Drones x6, Su-Bak-Na, Arkmer
* Ashigaru Harquebus x4, Raelin V2, Shurrak
* Warriors of Ashra x6, Rhogar Dragonspine, Syvarris, Kyntela Gwyn (sit one)
* Tagawa Samurai Archers x5, Taelord, Otonashi

Ixe:
* Granite Guardians x4, Warden 816, Drow Chainfighter, Otonashi
* Kato Katsuro, Ashigaru Harquebus x2, Ashigaru Yari x3, James Murphy (sit two)
* Warriors of Ashra x3, Omnicron Snipers x2, Taelord
* Einar Imperium x2, Raelin V2, Empress Kiova, Guilty McCreech

Arrow Grut:
* Blade Gruts x4, Tornak, Deathwalker 8000, Syvarris
* Aubrien Archers x5, Acolarh, Arkmer, Kyntela Gwyn
* Omnicron Repulsors x4, Omnicron Snipers x3, Blue Wyrmling 2
* Marro Drones x5, Su-Bak-Na, Raelin V2

Taeblewalker:
* Marro Drones x6, Jotun
* Granite Guardians x5, Guilty McCreech
* Arrow Gruts x4, Swog Rider x4, Mimring, Ice Troll Berserker, Earth Elemental
* Warriors of Ashra x1, Ulginesh, Johrdawn, Syvarris, Emirroon, Arkmer

kevindola:
* Warriors of Ashra x2, Ulginesh, Johrdawn, Emirroon, Arkmer, Kyntela Gwyn, Guilty McCreech
* Marro Drones x5, White Wyrmling x5, Tul-Bak-Ra (sit one)
* Shaolin Monks x2, Master Win Chiu Woo, Deathwalker 8000, Mindflayer Mastermind
* Spiders x4, Wyvern x2, Estivara, Brandis Skyhunter

betawolf36:
* Marro Drudge x4, Marro Hive, Sonlen, Otonashi
* Quasatch Hunters x4, Deathwalker 8000
* Spiders x6, Sujoah, Wyvern
* Anubian Wolves x3, Wolves of Badru x2, Blue Wyrmling x2, Khosumet

Dr. Goomonkey:
* Anubian Wolves x3, Wolves of Badru x2, Khosumet, Zettian Guards
* Aubrien Archers x4, Warriors of Ashra x3, Iron Golem
* Ulginesh, Morsbane, Johrdawn, Chardris, Arkmer, Spiders x1
* Arrow Gruts x2, Blade Gruts x1, Swog Rider x4, Mimring, Tornak, Izumi Samurai

These armies were made for a tournament that was reverse the whip, although I do not know how much each player took that into account when creating their armies. The list is pretty cool though. You can see that spiders, drones, arrow gruts, anubians, harqs and elves are really considered top tier in a B only format. Next month I will post the figure by figure W/L standings as well as I think that could lead to some interesting discussion.

[Typhon2222]

Fun list. As you say, interesting to see what becomes popular with the A units knocked out....

[mtl1998]

Yes, when creating armies, I quickly found out my favorite figures are almost all in the A- ranking. They are good enough to perform well, but not good enough that I feel bad for playing them.

Just enough cheese is the trick.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Fun list. As you say, interesting to see what becomes popular with the A units knocked out....

I find the meta way less interesting in B or minus format.
As you see in KD's armies it's almost alwaysthe same stuff which goes out.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

I find the meta way less interesting in B or minus format.
As you see in KD's armies it's almost alwaysthe same stuff which goes out.

Must resist temptation to mention Delta pricing. Resisting.... Resisting....

[vegietarian18]

Yeah, it's great that Delta allowed you to take the often-forgotten 4th Mass to a tournament.

[kevindola]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

I find the meta way less interesting in B or minus format.
As you see in KD's armies it's almost alwaysthe same stuff which goes out.

You make 2 separate statement here. I'm not sure if you are saying they are 2 different problems, or you are saying the meta is way less interesting because it's always the same stuff.

To your second sentence, I do not think it is any different with a full list of options. I do not have data nor could I find any list of armies from a 4x400 tournament, but my understanding from those that have gone to those kind of tournaments (most notably Gencon), is that those armies have a very limited core army set. You say the armies for the B format are always the same. I would argue that the variety seen here is no less than the variety seen at a standard 4 x ? tournament where different armies dominate but not a greater variety of armies. (Knights, Gruts, Vydar Range, Rat podges, Borgs, etc....)

My understanding of the main event at Gencon before the institution of reverse the whip was that army variety was fairly limited. Or at least no less limited than the army variety seen in my list.

[dok]

Breakdown of units used in the 2010 main event, courtesy of lonewolf, can be found HERE.

[Foudzing]

4x400 is very different from main event 2010 when one army have to do all the work and have to be very versatile, of course in such a format armies are very limited.
Example Dwarves, not good enough to go in straight up cheese format but perfect for 4x4, or other tier 2 squads like Arrows Gruts.

If you do the same format but with B or minus you would have also a very limited set of good armies, basically only few B commons squads have a chance and Arrows Gruts seems way better than the rest in this format.
As all the good anti-squads heroes are banned you have to fight squads with squads.
WoA aren't viable due to lots of ranged squads present, snipers and microcorps are bad due to squadscape, blade gruts are bad because they lose Grimnak and Nerak.
So basically all his left is Arrows Gruts, Aubriens, Marrden Hounds, Marro Drones and TSA .
In this meta Arrows Gruts dominate really hard.

If you compare 4x4 with B or minus and normal 4x4 I think normal have a higher number of squads to work with.
I don't like the format which just straight up bans some figures.
I would prefer a format where you have to take a certain amount of B or minus or with a multiplication factor.
F, D = x0
C- = x1
C = x2
C+ = x3
B- = x4
B = x5
B+ = x6
A- = x7
A = x8
A+ = x10

And let's say for a 500 points army, in addition of standart points limit you have another point limit where you multiply the point you take from each letter by the factor and it cannot exceeds 2500 points.

It deny cheese, it can bring back on the battlefield some figures deep in the rankings and without banning any unit.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by dok

Breakdown of units used in the 2010 main event, courtesy of lonewolf, can be found HERE.

Haha! As many Shades of Bleakewoode as 4th Mass.

I've always been against bans based on these rankings, but if people have fun with it, I won't try to stop them.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Haha! As many Shades of Bleakewoode as 4th Mass.

Yeah, it's a little misleading; two of those shades armies are 1x (and terrible armies). Same for one of the 4th. So really all it was was two 4th armies (pickle's 4thx4 Braxas, and Rev's 4thx4 Sentinels x2) and one shade army (gulp's PK/Shade/Krav).

2010 was really the last year we saw a large number of obviously uncompetitive builds out there, which I guess isn't surprising since it was the last main event before the discontinuation was announced. Here is 2011's armies; the top armies are not quite as nasty thanks to RtW, but the bottom half of the armies are definitely stronger. (Still 72 players so this is close to apples to apples.)

Originally Posted by Jexik

I've always been against bans based on these rankings, but if people have fun with it, I won't try to stop them.

Yeah, it's something that people do as a variant and it hasn't come close to taking over, so I wouldn't worry about it. This thread has done more good than harm for the competitive Heroscape community, and it's not close.

I'm on record saying that I'd lean towards banning the triple A+ combo in a double blind format, but nowadays I'm all-in on "take 2" or other drafting formats that make such a ban irrelevant anyway.

[El Diabolo]

If there is a tournament where cheese is banned I would suggest calling it the Lactose Intolerant Classic.