Rules Team HQ - Open for Business

[Lord Pyre]

RULES TEAM PROCEDURES

Submission: One anyone submits a rules question that is not immediately obvious, it goes into our rules queue, via a link to the post, or copied text, and placed in spoiler tags for organization.

Discussion: The rules team will discuss the question as needed, to see if further research is required, the question is due to a misunderstanding of the rules, or a minor wording update or clarification is needed. There must be at least 3 Rules team members to vote yea to move to the next phase.

Research and Clarification: If it is determined that further research is required, the rules team will then look at past designs, the official rulebooks, and any other official sources to determine a ruling. Also asking the Lead Designer the intent of the power, if the question involves just a single power. We discuss the findings and how to properly word any rulings or wording updates to make it clear.

Suggested Ruling Vote: The Rules team will then vote among themselves to come to a consensus on the ruling, update, and affected designs (If it’s a larger ruling with potential other updates required), using the below template.

Hero Vote: One member of the Rules team will then put it to the heroes as a vote officially. If Nay, then the rules team will take the reasons for the Nay into consideration and return to the Clarification phase for a rewording of the ruling.

FAQ Voting: The Heroes decided that all FAQs need to be approved by the Rules Team before they are added to a Book. Any C3G Member can make a proposal in the appropriate Book and tag the Rules Team for FAQ approval.

C3G Rules Team
Lord Pyre
MrNobody
quozl
tcglkn
Toyhandle

FORMAL RULINGS:
1/5/2022 Differentiating the attack action and the attack phase (passed 4-0)
1/27/2022 Proposed definition for start of round (passed 4-1-1)
3/11/2022 How instead of moving normally and instead of attacking triggers work (needs to be Hero verified) (passed 5-1-0)

CURRENT INVESTIGATIONS:
Open

QUEUE:
1/15/21 Special powers default may or must/any fall out based on current wording or FAQs (like Blob)
3/6/21 Skrull Infiltrator interaction with designs like Doombot and Dark Phoenix

[Lord Pyre]

FAQs to be added

Q: If I lose control of a Vehicle Destructible Object (VDO), but another player has not taken control of it yet, whose army is it in, if any?
A: A VDO starts the game in the army of the player who drafted it. If no player drafted the VDO (for example, it started the game on the battlefield as part of a scenario), it starts the game in no player's army. If a player takes control of a VDO, it enters that player's army. A VDO will remain in one player's army until another player takes control of it.

[IAmBatman]

Nice!

Something we should endeavor to lay out is where common interpretation issues are coming from and investigate if there’s anything we can do to consistently clarify them across the library.

For instance, “moving” and “attacking” (before/instead of/after) as power triggers can be a confusing, inconsistent mess that seems like it leads to about half our rules questions.

[MrNobody]

The 'moving normally' interpretation seems to solve most of our problems on that half of the issue. We're still stumbling in the darkness a bit, but we've got a guide dog now.

Unfortunately, the same language just doesn't translate well to attacking, since 'normal attacks' are already a distinct thing in-game.

[IAmBatman]

I am an advocate for using “attacking” to mean the phase and “an attack” to mean the action.

[IAmBatman]

OK, that conversation didn't get rolling, but is an important long-term thing to explore, IMO. I'm not sold that the moving thing was ever even fully sorted, so I think there's still an opportunity for consistency on how we refer to phases in the future.

That said, I have a smaller, but still significant (and complex) question to ask here:
-------------------

When a Vehicle Destructible Object starts the game, it's in the army of the person who drafted it. If it's unoccupied, it's not in anyone's control. That said, it's fair to assume (IMO) that "you" refers at that point to the person whose army it's in (I believe we have precedent of cards where it's in your army but not under your control, but "you" still works to refer to the player whose army the unit is in).

Now here's what gets tricky about VDOs: they can change hands pretty easily. Once another player occupies the VDO, if they are the only occupant (or was it if they occupy the Driver space?), they can take control of it. At this point, "you" would refer to the player controlling it.

But what happens when that player loses control of the VDO (their driver leaves or dies)? Is it in anyone's army at that point? Does it stay in the army of the last player to control it? Does it revert back into the army of the player who drafted it?

[tcglkn]

VDOs are never in your army. You can't place OMs on them. They don't count for victory conditions. They're just under your control if you occupy them.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

VDOs are never in your army. You can't place OMs on them. They don't count for victory conditions. They're just under your control if you occupy them.

The rules PDF is very outdated for that thread and should probably be deleted.

From what's in the SP:

CONTROL
A DO may be in a player's army or under their control, but by default are not in any player's army or under any player's control unless another rule or special power causes them to be. A DO not under a player's control is not considered a friendly or enemy figure by any other figure.

Then, contradicting that:

DOs with point costs and uniqueness ( Common, Uncommon, Unique, or Event ) may be drafted into Armies as Heroes can, following the same drafting restrictions as Heroes of the same uniqueness unless the scenario rules for a game mention DOs specifically.

Drafted DOs have their associated sculpt placed on the battlefield following the same scenario rules for that game as Heroes of their uniqueness unless the scenario rules for a game mention DOs specifically. When placing DOs you have drafted, you may also place any figures in your army on the card of that DO as occupants, assuming they can legally be placed in that DO.

A DO drafted by a player is included in a player's army, but is not automatically considered under their control and does not count towards the standard victory condition (if you only have DOs left, you will lose the game).

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

The rules PDF is very outdated for that thread and should probably be deleted.

The PDF in the thread is EXACTLY what the SP says there. Why would you delete the link?

[Ronin]

Draftable DOs are definitely in your army, that's spelled out in the rules. I remember Bats' question coming up before, but I don't remember if we arrived at an answer.

[Ronin]

I don't think those are contradictory. Maybe not as explicit as it could be, but I read the first bit as being about DOs that are just on the map - they don't default to being in anyone's army.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I don't think those are contradictory. Maybe not as explicit as it could be, but I read the first bit as being about DOs that are just on the map - they don't default to being in anyone's army.

I agree with this take, btw.

On the question at hand, my gut is that the VDOs would be in the army of the last player who controlled them? I think this is how it works with other figures that can move between "controlled" and "in an army."

Like if I mind control Doomsday and he dies, then clearly the "you" text still refers to the player who last controlled him. Same with Freddy Krueger if he's on his card or any resurrecting figures.