Metagame Evolution

[kolakoski]

Well met!

In light of the recent plethora of imaginative tournament formats, and the Last Waves (before WoTC pulled the plug), and all the various Fanscape activities in progress, Jexik, how would you revise your analysis of the current and immediate future state of the metagame?

[Taeblewalker]

The metagame will be changed by some of the C3V units coming out.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

In light of the recent plethora of imaginative tournament formats, and the Last Waves (before WoTC pulled the plug), and all the various Fanscape activities in progress, Jexik, how would you revise your analysis of the current and immediate future state of the metagame?

Yeah, bumpity! I would like to hear more thoughts on this too.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

In light of the recent plethora of imaginative tournament formats, and the Last Waves (before WoTC pulled the plug), and all the various Fanscape activities in progress, Jexik, how would you revise your analysis of the current and immediate future state of the metagame?

I don't think it can change that much. Each new release has less of an effect on the overall game - it's just how the numbers work out because there's already a large body of units.

1. You want to roll at least 3 dice at a time, somehow, to kill Heroes.
2. You want at least 3 attacks per OM, preferably more, to kill Squads.
3. Maps and scenarios affect what's good more than most individual new releases. (Does it favor melee? Range? speed? etc.)

1 and 2 are obvious.

3 can't be generalized in any meaningful way, except by saying "read what's happening at your tournament and practice it more than the other guys if you want to win."

For a pretty extreme anecdote, spider_poison played all of about 5-10 Heroscape games in the 2 years preceding his return to (and 2nd place finish at) GenCon in August 2011. Not that much changed.

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker

The metagame will be changed by some of the C3V units coming out.

It's possible, but for the same reason that waves 9-D3 didn't make old standbys any less good, all I could see possibly happening is certain new units being good enough to see play - but armies are so diverse these days that no one really counter-picks to beat one specific army... or if they do it's an old unit like Mass, Rats, Q9, etc.

Also, I'm not into scape enough these days to play the C3V units, so someone else will have to do that analysis if they care to do so.

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Yeah, bumpity! I would like to hear more thoughts on this too.

See above.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Jexik

armies are so diverse these days that no one really counter-picks to beat one specific army... or if they do it's an old unit like Mass, Rats, Q9, etc.

Pretty much. I do think the new figures do provide strong counters and change some of the dominant choices on the margins, but it's not as though 4th Mass or rats&range or bonding melee have suddenly become bad.

(EDIT: when I say "new figures" here, I'm referring to basically everything that has come out since Jexik wrote the first post, not just the new customs.)

Originally Posted by Jexik

Also, I'm not into scape enough these days to play the C3V units, so someone else will have to do that analysis if they care to do so.

Yes, that might happen.

[Neo]

No, CEV Is not official it doesn't belong here in the official Heroscape section. It probably won't changed thee metagame at all, because it 's not technically official heroscape, so it shouldn't be used in tournaments although it is great for casual games.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Neo

it 's not technically official heroscape, so it shouldn't be used in tournaments

Why is that? Are tournaments official?

[ROADRAGE]

Originally Posted by dok

Why is that? Are tournaments official?

That's a good question I suppose. I was considering allowing the C3V units in the next tournament we have, if I do does that make any of the top armies that day irrelevant and invalid for anyone to talk about in the competitive threads here on heroscapers?

[dok]

Originally Posted by ROADRAGE

That's a good question I suppose.

The question was rhetorical, actually. Tournaments are not official; WotC doesn't sanction events and set rules. There's a reason that the tournaments are not in this section.

Originally Posted by ROADRAGE

I was considering allowing the C3V units in the next tournament we have, if I do does that make any of the top armies that day irrelevant and invalid for anyone to talk about in the competitive threads here on heroscapers?

It's relevant. It's just another way to play the game. People will see the results and judge them for what they are.

[Neo]

However, This is the official heroscape part of the site, so if these threads are updated, at they should just be copied and then edited and put somewhere else. Yes, CEV is a massive project, but what sets it above any other customs projects?

[lefton4ya]

See How will C3G affect the metagame?, although you are right, I would not mind if someone copied the OP of this thread, the "What's in an Order Marker" and rankings to the custom section and modified it to add in C3V and SoV.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Neo

However, This is the official heroscape part of the site, so if these threads are updated, at they should just be copied and then edited and put somewhere else. Yes, CEV is a massive project, but what sets it above any other customs projects?

Oh, the word "official" is so tricky.

You see, when I think "official," I think licensed, like by a company. So the D&D Master Set was "official," because it was appropriately licensed by Hasbro/WotC.

On the other hand, the NHSD tournament I'll be running on 10/1 will not be "official" at all. Through Rÿchean, I will be getting some prize support from WotC, but WotC has no say over the format/structure/form of my tournament. It's not like M:tG, or, for that matter, chess, where there are "official" tournaments.

For the purpose of the structure and form of tournaments there is no "official." TDs can do things pretty off the wall, and some of them have, and that's up to them. Hopefully they do what's in the best interest of their local players, but the word "official" does not really enter into the calculation.

If SoV or C3V or C3G or whatever will be allowed at an event that does not make it more or less official. It may affect attendance, in a good way or bad way, but that's a separate question.

What, you ask, sets apart the C3V? Well, the C3V - and the C3G and the SoV - are stamps of approval by different groups, earned in different ways. If the tournament director chooses to let those stamps mean something, then they do. Otherwise they don't.

For me, C3V stands for customs built from the ground up and thoroughly tested and balanced to fit neatly within the Heroscape canon. The process is not transparent, but the end result should be a highly polished figure worthy of play alongside Finn and Brave Arrow.

A stamp of approval from the SoV means that the selected custom, designed by someone in the community, is similarly a highly polished figure worthy of play alongside Finn and Brave Arrow.

The C3G, bless their souls, do something involving superheroes. I'm not exactly sure what (). But by all accounts, they are rock stars, and I salute them.

What you do with these customs projects, and other ones, is up to you. There has been a tournament run with the rules from Cornpuff's Legacy project, and I hope all the attendees had a wonderful time.

For myself, I choose to allow SoV and C3V at my events. Not C3G, though, because all those people in tights make me uncomfortable ( No, I just don't allow Marvel, so C3G would be out of place). Your mileage may vary.