C3G Requests for Reevaluation

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

...

Suck on that, Bats!

[quozl]

Depends on the concerns. We definitely do not want any bannings so we will adjust what needs to be adjusted to address the concerns.

[Yodaking]

Here are some data points to consider.
These are the defensive D20 special powers that relate to moving the figure to avoid a hit:
Carnage, Symbiotic Senses, 13+ (works vs. all attacks)
Catwoman, Stray, 13+ (works vs. all attacks)
Daredevil, Radar Sense, 12+ (works vs. all attacks)
Nightcrawler, Evade, 13+ (works vs. normal att. only)
Spider-Man (Hasbro), Spider Sense, 11+ (works vs. all attacks)
Spider-Man (C3G), Spider Sense, 9+ (works vs. all attacks)
Vemon (Hasbro), Sider Sense, 14+ (works vs. all attacks)
Venom (C3G), Symbiotic Senses, 13+ (works vs. all attacks)

Similar defensive abilities that do not use the D20 but trigger often and result in bonus movement:
Flash & Prof. Zoom, roll a blank (1/6) on base 4 defense (works vs. all attacks)
HQ & Robin, roll a shield (1/4) on base 3 defense (works vs. all attacks)
Kid Flash, roll a blank (1/6) on base 3 defense (works vs. all attacks)
Speedball, roll a shield (1/3) on base 3 defense (works vs. all attacks)

Figures that can improve the D20 roll:
Brainiac 5, +/-1 for each unrevealed OM on his card
Destiny, +1, +3 if Magneto makes him an Outcast
Dr. Fate, +1 per unrevealed OM revealed on his card
Sage, +/-1, clear sight required

I left out Batroc, Puppet Master, and Ragdoll as they were not similar enough to really use as a comparison. Anything else I missed? One thing that I noticed is that Nightcrawler is the only one whose power does not work vs. special attacks. All the other D20 defensive powers work just as long as a skull was rolled for any reason.

[MegaSilver]

Maybe changing to to avoid all attacks would fix him enough?

[Smithy Winfred]

Off topic again - concerning Penguin, I don't think that his self importance power is really very themetic (isn't he something of a coward?) I think he could be changed in a very good way if you replace SI16 with a power that effects criminal figures (maybe like black mask's) It would make him a more effective Crime Lord, and it would bring him back to the realm of playability.

[Yodaking]

Penguin can be a frustrating figure to use as he screws up your own plans.

[weebaer]

My first real playtest for PM at 140 points.

PM did SP a rediculously high amount of times....I played the losing team. This should not be the norm. I will post more play tests as I am able to do them.

Spoiler Alert!

Thor 430, Hulk(C3G) 380, Captain America(C3G) 240, Puppet master 140. (1190) vs Thor2 420, Hulk2 (C3G) 380,Captain America2 (C3G) 240, Iron Man MK IV 250. (1300).

Played on Icey Road, C3G competitive map.

Round 1 All OMs for player 1 were on PM. My first OM was on Thor2 to get him out of sight. PM String Pulled Hulk2 (failed the first SP) and smashed MarkIV with 5 skulls. Mark IV only rolled 1 shield for the early death and lost me my 3rd OM. I then moved Hulk2 out of sight so that could not happen again. PM used SP on Cap2 and got it. He moved into range and Threw his shield at Hulk2 dealing 1 wound, and Thor2 who defended with 7 shields. PM got his 2nd SP as well and used Cap2 (only one in sight) to put 1 more wound on Hulk2 with Shield Throw. I lost my 3rd turn and Player 1 took advantage by using SP on Cap2 and put another wound on Hulk2. PM failed his second SP. Player 1 put all his OMs on PM again and won initiative. He used SP and Failed but the second landed again on Cap2 who put 1 wound on Hulk2 with his Shield Throw, Hulk2 now has 4 wounds. Thor2 has blocked all 4 shield throws. Hulk2 super-leaped to PM and rolled 3 for 3 skulls, killing him in one hit. All of PM’s d20 luck had run out and he rolled a 7 for RMC. Player 1 lost his next 2 OMs. I moved Thor2 and Cap Am2 into the fight. It became a slug fest after that the dice rolls were greatly in my favor with Thor2 Killing both Thor1 and Captain America1 , not before Thor1 Finished off a wounded Hulk2 and put 2 wounds on Thor2. So by this time it was full health Hulk1 vs Thor2 with 2 wounds, and full health Captain America2. Thor2 slapped 5 wounds on Hulk1 in 2 turns but fell to some big smashes and lost an OM. Hulk1 then duked it out with Cap2 for a little never losing his rage marker. Cap2 put another wound on him before getting smashed with 8 skulls.

Result: PM’s team won with Hulk1 having 6 wounds.

PM Stats: SP-5-7
RMC:0-1

[Lord Pyre]

Please post playtests in proper format, including how many wounds on each of the surviving figures and such! Thanks!

[Smithy Winfred]

Wait... Thor 2?

[weebaer]

Originally Posted by Smithy Winfred

Wait... Thor 2?

Thor2, Cap2 and Hulk2 all only refer to player 2's figures (me).

Both teams had Thor, Cap Am (C3G), and Hulk (C3G). I was just using the numbers to help the reader know which team's figure was doing what. I probably should have used A and B.

[Smithy Winfred]

Ohhhhh... That makes more sense.

[Yodaking]

So I've been thinking about where I'd want to see an updated Nightcrawler fall power wise. I think 160 points is a good place to target for him. He is not quite to the level of Emma Frost or Bishop at 170, but should be on even footing with Banshee at 160 and slightly better then Iceman at 150.

Now what D20# would get us better into that point range? I'm looking at the 160 point Spider-Man card and his D20# is down at 11+, however he would also have 1 more life, 1 more defense, & 1 more movement then our Nightcrawler. Then both have a SA that is pretty different in nature so they would be hard to compare. Both are SA or 3, but one involves moving and attacking adj. figures up to 3 times, the other one is a single ranged attack that lowers a figures defense by 1. Each SA has it's usefulness vs. a different type of opponents figures. Still the +1 def. & +1 life is fairly significant in terms of survivability and extending Nightcrawler's survivability is the reason for the update. So without changing the def. or life numbers I think Nightcrawler should have a slightly better D20 roll.

Thus my suggestion would be that we update his evade power to fall into line with all the other powers of a similar nature and extend it to cover special attacks as well. Then lower the roll down to 10+ and test him out at 160 to see how he does.