WOtC has a new skirmish game comming out 2012

[kenjib]

It will not be hex terrain. D&D works on a square grid and these are definitely going to be made for D&D. D&D stuff also tends to have terrain in large chunks - so it will probably be more like dungeon rooms and large sections of outdoor terrain tiles that you can lay together.

I don't think that this really has much relation to Heroscape. D&D has always had miniatures to play with it - going all the way back to D&D's predecessor, Chainmail, which was a miniatures skirmish game. So you can almost say that miniatures in D&D pre-date roleplaying in D&D. Versions 3, 3.5, and now 4 of D&D are all very miniatures heavy - moreso than previous versions.

D&D has always needed a line of miniatures to support it. Making them blind purchase packs was really bone-headed though - because when you play D&D you will want very specific figures - not a random selection of whatever is lying around. It seems to me a pretty obvious choice to switch to pre-packaged sets. Furthermore, the previous miniatures skirmish game was kind of like a watered down version of D&D and there wasn't much point to it. I never played it either but it looked like it wasn't very good either. I don't think it's a surprise that it didn't catch on. It wouldn't have lasted as long as it did without people also purchasing for use with the D&D rpg. So if they wanted to switch to a different packaging/marketing scheme then it's also a perfect chance to try changing the skirmish game and seeing if there is some way to open a new market for that part of the game amongst people who either don't play the rpg, or people who will buy more figures than they need for the rpg if it's also for skirmish (for example, higher level games are less common because it can take a long time to get to those levels).

I don't think there's any good reason for Heroscape fans to feel jaded about this. It really doesn't have much to do with Heroscape and seems like a good idea for D&D. I think that the only relation this has to Heroscape is as a pretty good source of easy to find custom models.

[Taeblewalker]

Originally Posted by kenjib

It will not be hex terrain. D&D works on a square grid and these are definitely going to be made for D&D. D&D stuff also tends to have terrain in large chunks - so it will probably be more like dungeon rooms and large sections of outdoor terrain tiles that you can lay together.

This sounds like Castle Ravenloft and similar boardgames. Perhaps they are going to somehow make the systems compatible.

['Scaper94]

If wotc *did* make the terrain into hexes, they would most likely make the tiles half the size of HS tiles.

I guess I'll have to see just how this game pans out. If the minis look at least remotely interesting, I may buy them.

[TheLorax]

I think at this point WotC's strategy is pretty clear: don't make things that compete with MtG or DnD, only makes things that are either directly MtG or DnD, or that can directly and immediately tie in or be used in either system.

They tried to make Heroscape what this game is going to be; something that DnD players can use as a source of figures and something non-DnD players might want to also play. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) Heroscape is not DnD and Dnd is not Heroscape. I don't think its a stretch to say most Heroscapers didn't want to see DnD figures in Heroscape, some even quit the game because of it. And obviously, DnDscape didn't bring in enough DnD'ers to pay the bills the way they wanted. The sad reality is that Heroscape and DnD just didn't mesh very well, and could possibly even be seen as competing with each other, in a way.

The market isn't big enough for one company to make two competing games. Whatever they produce in the mini's department needs to be compatible with DnD in a major way, or it will just die.

[TheStorm77]

*If* their new "interlocking terrain" is hex-based, and
*If* their new "interlocking terrain" is HS compatible...
I think we should check the bottoms of the tiles - what was it everyone was supposed to write on their tiles when they sent them in? Maybe they found something to do with all those tiles...

[chas]

Since I don't know anyone at WOTC, I'm not invested in hating or loving them. I'll raid anything that comes out that is useful to me--hexes, figures, terrain, whatever, from them or any other company.

To Kolakoski: Don't be silly--who has been Scaping for any length of time and doesn't have Aubriens? (Private joke).

To Taeblewalker: Yes, yes, right!

Its best to stay flexible, or you'll miss out. I'd never played Magic the Gathering, and it was always something I made fun of as just for kids. Then at GENCON we got free half decks in the introductory "goodies" bag. So back at the motel room, when we were too tired to break out anything serious, we took out our free half-decks, and had fun. The next day we got two more half decks from an acquaintance (actually the woman who mc's the Big Costume Contest) who didn't want them. Now I'm finally playing with a full deck (black and blue) if I want to play against my pal (red and green). Goofy, but occasional fun and no money spent...

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by chas

Now I'm finally playing with a full deck . . .

Well met!

Really! This I gotta see!

chas still can't believe I traded away my single squad of Aubriens for 2 squads of Heavy Gruts (and some other things).

[SuperflyTNT]

Castle Ravenloft has interlocking terrain, sort of like the Space Hulk cardboard, but this isn't going to be it.

I've been to WAY too many stores and have seen WAY too many other games being played on Heroscape terrain.

Seems to me that if someone could mass produce reasonably cheap terrain in both hexes and squares, the market would embrace it like babes to their mother's teat.

More news about their boardgames

http://critical-hits.com/2011/08/08/...ducts-seminar/

And here's the real winner, there's a full audio of the seminar:
http://thetome.podbean.com/2011/08/0...oduct-seminar/

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT

And here's the real winner, there's a full audio of the seminar:
http://thetome.podbean.com/2011/08/0...oduct-seminar/

What's it say, for those of us without audio on our computers?

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Hogg

What's it say, for those of us without audio on our computers?

It says, "Get audio... get audio!"

[Robotech Master]

Time will tell if I have enough money to buy into their reboot.

Customizable terrain boards is a must though, and something they should have had to begin with way back when. I wonder if they'll restat old figs to be used in the skirmish game like when they transitioned from 1.0 to 2.0?

Diceless combat is a huge change for them. DDM Skirmish's main drawback was that it was too heavily D20 based; it always seemed far less lenient than multi-D6 systems or HeroScape's Skull system. They didn't need to go completely diceless, but if their action card system is modeled after Malifaux, then there is precedence for that working well.

I've got Uncharted Seas and Firestorm Armada on the horizon though; still buying lots of Warmachine/Hordes; looking forward to Star Trek: Fleet Captains and Relic Knights; and then the Battleship galaxies expansions if they happen...

Well at least its non-random. RPG players will be really happy about that too.

[Taeblewalker]

The figs are the main point. Who knows - I might even play the game! Although I never played D&D minis - and I have hundreds of dollars worth of them.