Boot Camp of Valhalla Draft Voting

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Do you mind sharing what kinds of Special Attacks cause issues? I believe you that some might, but I'm having trouble thinking of them if it only triggers after rolling defense dice and only allows movement, like Isamu's Vanish.

Isamu's Vanish causes enough troubles, but moving a different figure than the one that was attacked is all sorts of new trouble. Effects that trigger off of special attacks are bad, bad, bad, and the ruleset barely holds together with the few we already have.

I do not want to try to summarize a dozen pages of Editing arguments. And every time I bring up corner cases everyone feels the need to chime in on their own "obvious" interpretation of the rules (often contradictory to each other). Almost certainly we'd turn this thread into another retread of the Editing discussion, except 10x longer.

Usually in C3V we Editors are expected to just make it work somehow. That was one of the not-common times we couldn't get it done and made the design team rework the unit.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Isamu's Vanish causes enough troubles, but moving a different figure than the one that was attacked is all sorts of new trouble. Effects that trigger off of special attacks are bad, bad, bad, and the ruleset barely holds together with the few we already have.

I do not want to try to summarize a dozen pages of Editing arguments. And every time I bring up corner cases everyone feels the need to chime in on their own "obvious" interpretation of the rules (often contradictory to each other). Almost certainly we'd turn this thread into another retread of the Editing discussion, except 10x longer.

Usually in C3V we Editors are expected to just make it work somehow. That was one of the not-common times we couldn't get it done and made the design team rework the unit.

I don't intend to start a lengthy discussion over it, but I think that a brief summary of what the problems are would be very useful for those of us who aren't able to see the C3V Editing arguments.

I think even just one example would be good to illustrate the point. As it is, I'm struggling to think of a case where Ullar's Battle Dance would cause a problem but Vanish wouldn't. I don't expect you to spend hours re-reading old threads, but when the entire reasoning behind a stance isn't available to the majority of people participating in a group project, it makes talking about it and coming to a mutual consensus difficult.

[All Your Pie]

I do know that the reason I limited my version of the power to normal attacks was due to SAs like Explosion or Fire Line that affect multiple targets at the same time. Do you get to move your figures every time they roll dice, causing them to potentially move out of or into the attack? What are the consequences of that?

That situation alone would need one or more rulings in order to have the power function, and I'm sure it isn't even the thorniest case. So, I'm willing to take Scytale at his word on this, and take it as an implicit understanding going forward that a movement power that can trigger in response to SAs is a no-no.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by All Your Pie

I do know that the reason I limited my version of the power to normal attacks was due to SAs like Explosion or Fire Line that affect multiple targets at the same time. Do you get to move your figures every time they roll dice, causing them to potentially move out of or into the attack? What are the consequences of that?

Yeah, and that's just the start. What if you move a figure out of the explosion and into Raelin's aura? Does it still roll defense as if it was in the explosion? And if so, does it get Raelin's boost? What if it suicides in the process? (That matters to powers like Sonic Fists.) These aren't even the thorny cases, just basic stuff. Start tossing in some of the more exotic specials and things really get messy.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by All Your Pie

I do know that the reason I limited my version of the power to normal attacks was due to SAs like Explosion or Fire Line that affect multiple targets at the same time. Do you get to move your figures every time they roll dice, causing them to potentially move out of or into the attack? What are the consequences of that?

That situation alone would need one or more rulings in order to have the power function, and I'm sure it isn't even the thorniest case. So, I'm willing to take Scytale at his word on this, and take it as an implicit understanding going forward that a movement power that can trigger in response to SAs is a no-no.

Originally Posted by Scytale

Yeah, and that's just the start. What if you move a figure out of the explosion and into Raelin's aura? Does it still roll defense as if it was in the explosion? And if so, does it get Raelin's boost? What if it suicides in the process? (That matters to powers like Sonic Fists.) These aren't even the thorny cases, just basic stuff. Start tossing in some of the more exotic specials and things really get messy.

I see it now. I hadn't remembered Mimring's Fire Line, and I can see how moving a different figure into or out of an area of effect could get into confusing territory. Thanks for elaborating on that; I can agree that it'd be reasonable to go with a version of Ullar's Battle Dance that only triggers on normal attacks if that direction is chosen.

[All Your Pie]

Alrighty, this is wrapped up!

Regarding the possibility of a second poll, I didn't hear many people chiming in about it after it was brought up. That being the case, I would much prefer to simply abide by the guidelines as I originally wrote them. As such, it looks like @Tornado 's draft has come out on top, with Lazy Orang and Scytale's in a narrow third and second place.

As the submitter of the winning draft, Tornado, you are allowed to choose yourself or someone else to be the person to run the design thread for that draft. Once that thread is posted, we can begin discussion and revisions, particularly if we want to incorporate any elements of our runners-up into the design (so long as we keep those additions reasonable, of course). Post here or message me when you come to a decision, or if there is anything else we need to discuss here before moving forward.

[Tornado]

Cool. Looking forward to implementing those tweaks that were suggested.
You can keep running things AYP, you have done a great job so far.
I think we need a new name as well.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Cool. Looking forward to implementing those tweaks that were suggested.
You can keep running things AYP, you have done a great job so far.
I think we need a new name as well.

Queen Chlamydiae.

[All Your Pie]

Alright then, looks like we're ready to keep moving on.

I've reformatted the design thread a bit for our uses going forward. See ya over there!