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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G. |
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#61
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
This seems to fix a lot of the problems that have been addressed. Also feels on theme.
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#62
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
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While it may not be a rule written down, the intent of the flip cards is for figures that have two sets of powers/personalities/etc but in the same physical package...ie same mini. This has been the case for all the designed flip cards which I believe has only been one. So you just need to be ok with knowing that you don't have all the information and just take the word of the Heroes that have already spoken. I say this will full respect as I think I understand you a little since you seem to be a lot like my son actually, but the folks on this site, in our conversations, we don't always use the precise wording that you are needing at that moment. So my phrasing of "usually" was not meant as a "well in the first 10 flip designs we used the same figure 9 times so Usually..." So sorry if my wording confused you there. But 100% of all Flip cards have been using the same figure. And I know for certain that at some point several of us were contemplating when it should be appropriate to use a flip card and one of the comments was "same figure". I thought it was in Killer Frosts thread since I'm 99% sure I said it to Bats. And he asked me specifically at some point since he knew I've been fully invested in the show if Snow and Frost were justifiable as a single figure. But knowing how detailed you are...if it were in that thread you would have seen it. So I'm guessing it happened in a workshop thread. Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those. |
#63
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
Well this seems to have gotten a little out of hand...
I think it wisest to follow the established precedent of a single figure, so it's probably best to ditch the flip idea. Like tickle said, there have been ways to tie designs together. Off Thunderbolt: Quote:
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Also Event Hero is definitely something best reserved for Space Gods and the like. If we don't want him to be controllable that could go in one of his powers. Also there's no reason Hyde can't function the same in game as Abomination or someone (glyphs, etc.). I'd also say his size should be Medium, Hyde rides in a carriage a lot in Vol 2, he's big but it's clear he can still fit. Again Hulk and Abomination are Medium 6. |
#64
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
@japes
, If that's the way it has to be, then I guess that's just the way it has to be. I'll be hawkishly watching for that Werewolf release.
Your son sounds like a cool dude. I should probably go throw a vote to Tony Stark. Quote:
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Jekyll shouldn't be able to pick up any weapon, like an energy ring and roll the D20 to blast someone, because he's unable to harm. And this is pure speculation on my part, but I also assume he would not drive, as folks with certain ailments can't drive, because it's too risky to get behind the wheel if, say, something like a seizure happened. On top of that, Jekyll is heavily medicated in order to maintain control. Interestingly, that first bit about his metabolism probably explains why unlike the other characters, Jekyll is never shown eating, only taking medicine/pills. Hyde probably eats more than enough for him as well.
Spoiler Alert!
As far as being resistant to mind control, the Event Hero protection is different from Mental Shield. Lots of powers that refer to Mental Shield should still work on him. Hyde does have a strong mind/will though, as he's basically unrestricted negative emotion personified. The brilliant detective, Dick Donovan was having a very difficult time negotiating with Hyde. Though he must have reasoned with him at some point, because Hyde does eventually help him. In Campion's words, Hyde's "a tough nut to crack." (Also, cool detail, Hyde is probably looking right at Campion and the group because the Two-Way glass doesn't impair Hyde's vision.) Full page:
Spoiler Alert!
Hyde should also be immune to auto-destruction, as we saw him "go the distance" at least once, twice if you count the time he was hit with the heat ray outside the Martian crater. Satanus' thread is a huuuuge discussion about what qualifies a figure for Event Hero. It's even pointed out that at some point, Satanus was mind controlled by Thoth. But overall, it seemed to be the right call for the character at the time. Although it appears that later on T-Spinny had some regret: Quote:
Within the thread though, Bats says: Quote:
I like the Arthur reference , but once Hyde is out, he should stay out. Doesn't really make sense to have him revert to Jekyll mid-battle, nor does it sound fun to have to start rolling to release Hyde again. I also don't think multiple powers reflected under one power is bad. Mystic Power Drain is autowounding, healing, power stealing, and an additional turn. Unstoppable Brute is 3 easy to understand powers in 3 sentences. If I can manage to keep him as Event, I suppose the first line can be scratched, since he's already immune to auto-destruction. I'd rather the Mina thing be a second turn rather than additional dice, because he never holds back ever. But when he was avenging Mina, he took extra time. And for the middle sentence, if he's not ripping apart crowds of commons, then we've failed to represent Hyde, as that's what he does in every single fight. |
#65
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
Makeshift Design Directory
Complete C3G Designs Invisible Man toyhandle's updated designs Mina Murray Allan Quatermain Captain Nemo Doctor Jekyll & Mister Hyde Splash's updated (hopefully) designs Karat's Allan Quatermain Gardevoir's League (2013) Mod Guides and Figure ideas Thanks to Spidey'tilIDie, Dr Jekyll, toyhandle, Gardevoir, and anyone else who contributed. Allan Quatermain - Splash's Mod Guide Figure suggestions:
Spoiler Alert!
Mina Murray - Splash's Mod Guide Figure suggestions:
Spoiler Alert!
Captain Nemo - Splash's Mod Guide Figure suggestions:
Spoiler Alert!
Doctor Jekyll - Wizkids Heroclix Dr Jekyll (cheap and available, no work needed!)
Spoiler Alert!
Mister Hyde - Splash's Mod Guide Figure suggestions:
Spoiler Alert!
Last edited by Splash; July 23rd, 2022 at 08:38 PM. |
#66
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
Hot take - do we need Jekyll at all? If what toy is saying is true and he's literally incapable of doing any fighting, is he just a way to delay you from getting to the figure you actually want to use?
I cleaned up the OP a bit. Just want to be clear that it was me and that I wasn't trying to be a jerk, just wanted to make it a bit easier to get to the functional information. |
#67
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
Vol 2 he's almost Hyde the whole time. We could design Hyde to function more solo and then add in Jekyll later with a bunch of Hyde dependent powers later (Billy Batson style, oh I guess those were designed concurrently, well you get the idea).
Last edited by Splash; October 23rd, 2021 at 10:39 PM. |
#68
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
Some quick thoughts across the designs:
Mina: Actively dislike her taking turn with "figures". Its just a blatant cheat to try to get around the Event Hero thing (which I don't think Hyde should be) and makes for a weird synergy thing in the case of commons or squads that would potentially have the personality. Allan: Ditch Avenger in the first title. The word is being consistently used in Avengers powers. I'd also switch his defensive thing to an unblockable. Flat out autowounds is pretty strong. Invisible Man: I actually liked the mechanical synergy I saw at one point of Mina adding to initiative for each Extraordinary personality and Invisible Man keying solely off the initiative roll. Same ultimate result, but helps him feel useable outside of Extraordinary builds (which I feel all but the core synergy piece should have. Jekyl/Hyde: First, I don't feel he needs to be an Event Hero. Unless you've actually seen him resist mind control and if people legitimately feel he should resist destruction powers he doesn't need that. I'd also prefer to see the Mina callout swapped to a class thing, like an Order Marker first revealed on a Leader figure (or whatever class Mina is). This keeps him useable outside LoEG builds, and I'm generally opposed to SI name callouts unless there is a very strong relationship between the characters, like, marriage level connection. |
#69
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
Absolutely, he's a part of the team. My Mr. Hyde draft doesn't rely on Jekyll, but accessing Hyde through Jekyll is an essential part of the experience of playing Edward Hyde.
Even though Jekyll was absent in Vol. 2 after the initial transformation, Vol. 2 takes place during the very brief span of August 5-9. https://lxg.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline#cite_ref-230 As I mentioned before, Hyde refers to Jekyll as though he's still alive. He specifically says that with the Martians around, Jekyll would get them both killed, and if he goes out, its on his terms. Entirely possible that if somehow Hyde had survived the Martian invasion, Jekyll would return.
Spoiler Alert!
Jekyll transforming or not transforming is always a dramatic moment. Rolling to transform adds some drama and strategy to the character.
Spoiler Alert!
With the transformation unblockables, it offers a choice. Do I want to attack my own Jekyll early on, and waste the unblockables, but get him out early? If I'm the opponent, do I want to attack Jekyll to hopefully kill Hyde early and avoid the unblockables, or I do want to ignore him? I'm not convinced a two-figure flip card is not possible. Case in point: Why can Red Skull modify a special attack roll, even though the rules specify against that? Because the power spells it out. Exactly as I did in my draft, exactly as was stated here about the Werewolf draft: But even if duel Jekyll/Hyde gets voted against for some arbitrary rule that may or may not exist, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do Jekyll at all. We'll just have to make it work. |
#70
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
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We already know Satanus has been mind controlled. Can Old One Eye resist Mind control? Certainly not Godzilla. Evil Ernie? Axe Cop? Thanos w/o the Mind Gem? And I already showed the images, but Hyde's relationship with Mina is specific to her and no one else. He doesn't listen to anyone else. The series ends in Tempest some 100+ years into our future with a newish/revived/cloned-ish Hyde born from the original's skeleton out of the Fountain of Youth, with Mina and him dancing to a song called Immortal Love. |
#71
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
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Event Hero is also about intentional cutting out of synergies based on the character and also the level they're working at. IMO, there should rarely be dispute about whether or not a particular character qualifies as an Event Hero. If something is part of the normal heroic team of the story, that isn't an Event to me. |
#72
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Workshop
In the comics, in that scene, Jekyll chooses not to use an armament, because Hyde is a big bruiser type. Hulk would probably run past a gun on the ground to punch somebody. Does not mean every big buff Mutate who knows their fist is preferable to a gun should be Event. Also Jekyll knowing better than to drink and drive doesn't really factor in either. I did mention that Hyde was pretty comfortable riding around in a carriage most of Vol 2. Auto-destruction is covered in his powers.
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