HeroScape is coming back!

[Shurrig]

Originally Posted by GamerDad74

First, my biggest hope of all is for a return to Classic 'Scape. One of the biggest downfalls (imo) of the Haslab campaign was that AoA was way off both thematically and aesthetically with original Heroscape. Galactic gerbils? No thanks. MORE generals? Completely unnecessary.

The great thing about scape is that EVERYTHING is scape, and so everything basically fits under its banner. Certainly there are some exceptions, but usually when I see the argument that AoA didn't feel like classic scape I have the same reaction as to when people complain about new Pokemon designs or a new Minecraft update. This "It looks like a fakemon" or "the new update feels modded" to me comes off as aversion to change, and generally yeah, people don't like change. I don't hold it against anyone if they don't play new Pokemon games or Minecraft updates, that's completely their prerogative, but it's not convincing to someone like me who was actually a big fan of basically everything AoA brought to the table.

To me what matters is the effort that's put into the new stuff, if it seemed like AH was being lazy in their designs then yes, I wouldn't have bit. Thankfully there were great people from the community behind the unit designs, and the cards that we did see reflected the effort put into the project. I understand that historical units were a big deal for a large portion of the community, and on that point I will cede my position, I don't get it but it is what it is. My point is, I don't generally care that AH/Renegade did stray/might stray from the classic scape design philosophy so long as the effort is there. Everything is scape, and sometimes the battle of all time requires a sugar glider with a gun!

Seriously though, if I never get an official version of Tuck Harrigan I will start throwing hands.

[Shurrig]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Infinite Rat Factory

~Dysole, snarkily

More like Hellforge Lunch Factory

~Shurrig, hungrily

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Infinite Rat Factory

~Dysole, snarkily

Rats! why did it have to be Rats...

Ok, I know it's a joke, but this could be wicked in a 2v1 scenario (e.g., we've done 2v1 castle siege games) with obviously the "1" having the rat factory.

[Master Roshi]

New York city is already a rat factory, so maybe we'll get it in a New York themed expansion

[GamerDad74]

Originally Posted by Shurrig

The great thing about scape is that EVERYTHING is scape, and so everything basically fits under its banner.

Thanks for engaging. I agree that Heroscape is the "Battle of All Time" and that it's really inaccurate of me to complain about certain faction designs and the aesthetic. But whether it's logical of me to assert that, it is my personal feeling. Because of that, I really do wonder, and have a hunch, that part of what caused the original resurrection of HS to fail was the wide divergence from what most of us would understand as "classic 'Scape." It's part of the same complaint that was levied against D&D 'Scape back in the day, and I think the D&D stuff was closer in feel than much of the AoA stuff, and if people thought D&D was way off, what did they think of AoA?

I just want it to succeed and if that means all new stuff and fighting furballs a la AoA, then so be it. But if it means sticking to classic feel, classic tropes, and classic factions, then I'm definitely for that.

What would be interesting is a poll that asks whether people prefer "Classic 'Scape" designs or whether they really want a new direction, new generals, new factions, and new aesthetic. If anyone can put that together, that would be awesome. I'm too technically challenged to do that.

[Shurrig]

Originally Posted by GamerDad74

What would be interesting is a poll that asks whether people prefer "Classic 'Scape" designs or whether they really want a new direction, new generals, new factions, and new aesthetic. If anyone can put that together, that would be awesome. I'm too technically challenged to do that.

That would be interesting to see. My hunch is people will vote for what they know, I'm not so sure we got to see how good AoA could have been. A lot of the concepts shown were really crazy, like the Mammoth Grut!

[GamerDad74]

Originally Posted by Shurrig

That would be interesting to see. My hunch is people will vote for what they know, I'm not so sure we got to see how good AoA could have been. A lot of the concepts shown were really crazy, like the Mammoth Grut!

Yes, I really loved the stuff AoA did that was either a nod to or a direct connection to Classic. Problem was there wasn't much of it and some of the best things were behind certain pledge levels which were virtually unattainable.

[BigTicket]

Adding my 2 cents in case anyone from renegade reads this. I think the reboot can satisfy most of the audience with or without the AoA content, but I think the new planets and associated units would benefit from being peppered in with more classic units from existing planets. I think it would go a long way to make existing fans more comfortable with adding new planets and factions if they are mixed in with orcs, marro, soulborgs, dwarves, primadons, and historical units we haven’t seen before. I think it was a mistake to “waste” pirates, which feel like one of the most obvious gaps in the existing historical units, by integrating them with the dawnraider syndicate. In short, to me, the issue was not the introduction of armored polar bears and alien bugs. It was at least partially the fact that the only orcs, humans, marro, soulborgs, dwarves, etc. were lumped into the dawnraider syndicate. I hope renegade introduces units like Aztecs, Spartans, more dwarves, normal pirates, more primadons, more vipers, more orcs (or maybe other factions from grut), post-apocalypse humans, etc. Whether the AoA factions make an appearance or not becomes a much less critical issue when they are “diluted” with classic units. I actually hope we don’t only get more units that are part of existing factions and I would personally be happy to see most of the AoA units at some point, but I think it might be better to a see a slower drip in waves that mix in classic factions and new factions from classic planets.

[Shurrig]

Originally Posted by GamerDad74

Yes, I really loved the stuff AoA did that was either a nod to or a direct connection to Classic. Problem was there wasn't much of it and some of the best things were behind certain pledge levels which were virtually unattainable.

So, in that case, are you saying that it wasn't so much that there were new factions, but rather it was how much new stuff was added initially? I kind of liked that some of the figures that were added still had some synergy with older units (Frostclaws with classic Jandar champions for example).

[Chlorophyllic]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Infinite Rat Factory

~Dysole, snarkily

That sounds like a cool scenario to play solo, but playing against a competent player using that would be quite unpleasant...

[Shurrig]

Originally Posted by Chlorophyllic

That sounds like a cool scenario to play solo, but playing against a competent player using that would be quite unpleasant...

Eh, maybe? It’s not like the hive is a top tier unit, though I do shiver at rebirthing rats…

[GamerDad74]

Originally Posted by Shurrig

So, in that case, are you saying that it wasn't so much that there were new factions, but rather it was how much new stuff was added initially? I kind of liked that some of the figures that were added still had some synergy with older units (Frostclaws with classic Jandar champions for example).

I think that's accurate. The fact is, there will likely always be a faction/unit or two that doesn't connect with some folks. That's fine. If it was me, I just wouldn't buy/use it.

But yeah, nearly EVERYTHING in AoA felt like a radical departure from classic (the game we all have such a passion for) that the draw just wasn't the same. I didn't pledge during AoA because there was just no way I was going to drop that kind of cash on one or two factions I liked and the rest I didn't, plus terrain I already have bins full of. I was just going to wait until retail and get the few I actually liked and then keep my fingers crossed for more classic/historical/marro/classic-type units in the future.

Like I said, I would love to see a poll that captures which type of HS people really prefer or want. Totally new factions/new generals? Classic factions with new historical and other units that blend seemlessly? What draws you in? What would turn you off?