Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

[betawolf36]

@Confred
There aren't going to be any order markers, you can take a turn with any unit you please.

[CheddarLimbo]

Originally Posted by IshMEL

@El_T How can it be "corporate exploitation" if the corporation owns the game? I can see your wanting it to be a true Heroscape revival, and not something that is almost-but-not-quite-Scape, but I am not sure how this constitutes exploitation...

Just out of curiosity, does anyone with more MtG experience have an idea of which Planeswalker / color would correspond with which General? Is White Jandar or Aquilla?

Ennnh. They don't match up real cleanly...

But if I were going to assign them, I'd say

Vydar Blue
Ullar Green
Jandar White

Those are the easy ones.

Utgar could really be Black OR Red
And Einar and Aquilla don't really fit with either of the remaining colors well.

In Heroscape, there is a lot more "cross over" in certain themes than in Magic, especially on the creature side.

[johnny139]

It's pretty tough to line up the colors/generals precisely.

I'd say that Utgar is pure Black and Vydar is pure Blue. Jandar is probably pure White, as well. Beyond that, you have to mix-and-match some. I'd say that Ullar is Green/White; definitely nature-based, but also very harmonious. Aquilla, on the other hand, is probably more Green/Red. Maybe just pure Green, actually, or Green/Black. More of a "primal force" general. Valkrill screams Black/Red to me, since it's evil but with a more chaotic bent.

Einar is the toughest one for me. He's got some White in there (well-organized, militaristic), along with Red (overwhelming force) and Black (power-hungry and conquest-oriented). I'd say White/Red, because he's a lot like the Boros, if pushed.

So maybe...

Jandar = White
Ullar = White/Green
Aquilla = Green/Red
Vydar = Blue
Einar = White/Red
Valkrill = Red/Black
Utgar = Black

That gives some purity at the poles, and pretty equitable distribution of colors. There's 3 Reds and only 1 Blue, though.

I think more pressing, though, is where do the Planeswalkers they're included fit in? Liliana is pure Utgar (power-hungry and ambitious), Nissa is definite Ullar (Elves and unity and nature power), and I think Jace is solidly Vydar (mysterious, has his own agenda). Chandra is a wildcard, though. Jandar (being free-spirited and heroic?), Aquilla (pretty much pure, raw passion), Einar (mostly just for the color scheme)?

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by Agent Minivann

I've seen this mentioned a couple times, and I just don't buy it. This is at a major convention for starters. They are going to have the major pieces reasonably close to how the end product will look. To go along with that, the interior hex boundaries on the boards appeared to be printed with the Heroscape hex shape detail (and possibly debossed so the hexes can actually kind of settle into position, but I might have been seeing things). Printing the hex edge detail on the prototype board is a lot of work for just using pieces on hand. Mechanically the cards suggest the hex size and height come into play just like in Heroscape, so a radically different hex would be surprising. And logistically, they still presumably have access to the tooling or dies or whatever the proper terminology is for manufacture already. Changing the size or design significantly is going to be more expensive and will cut into profit.

I agree that the finished product will be pretty close to what we see here, with the HS tiles and everything. It appears that they cast new tiles for the prototype here, they are close to the concrete tiles but appear more beige.

However, I'm not 100% sure they will work with our HS tiles. They did spend the time/money to resize them once before, when they used them as display bases for Marvel Legends figures. The scale was shrunken slightly and the tiles didn't interlock or stack with regular HS tiles. http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=40359

[El T]

Oof. I should explain.

@IshMEL I use the word "exploitation" to stress the notion that WotC took a game that was fun and good on its own and morphed it, for better or for worse, into a method of marketing their preexisting games and products. They did it first with D&D, now they're doing it with Magic. @Dad_Scaper , it sounds as though you think I'm claiming that WE are being exploited. This doesn't really have anything to do with us as a community. WotC is simply exploiting a resource it has so it can turn a profit, please its fans, et cetera. (The goal doesn't really matter.)

Inherently, exploitation of that nature is not bad at all. In fact, it's widely encouraged in a capitalist economy. My quarrel with it doesn't regard ethics whatsoever. The reason I don't take kindly to the new game is just that I'm a lifelong fan of classic Scape, and more importantly, a bit of a purist. I've known since joining this site that I wasn't, by and large, surrounded by like-minded individuals, and that's totally fine with me. I enjoy seeing all the customs and crossovers on this site, even though I don't see myself ever using them myself.

@Blackrock , I get that you like both games and enjoy seeing them intertwined. Doubtlessly, the majority of Scapers like having the new materials and figures and such. That's great! Go ahead and support the new game. I may have picked the wrong word when I said "boycott," since that implies widespread participation with the ultimate goal of crippling the company or organization. I meant instead to convey the elements of refraining from supporting a venture because of an ideological disagreement. What's more, I meant it primarily on the personal level, as opposed to the community at large. That's why I said "for those of us".

Furthermore, I had no intent of stopping the game's production or "paying back" WotC. The action and consequence of the so-called boycott are both personal and internal. @CheddarLimbo and @IAmBatman , that should clear things up. No large-scale consequences sought. And finally, @Blackrock , I will respectfully discourage drawing a conclusion about my character ("pettiness") from my suggestion.

So, hopefully that explains my opinion better. In retrospect, I likely should have given that long-winded explanation to begin with. No hard feelings, all.

[Rÿchean]

I can not see any down side to this game that CVN is working on. Why all the angst? They are not crapping on scape; they are re-using their intellectual property to develop other product lines.

If it is indeed to scale for terrain and figures, we should all be thanking CVN for throwing us a bone where he could. I assure you, the man loves his scape and is fascinated/honored by the community that exists because of his work. If he could get Heroscape back into production, he would.

Also, I've read many posts talking about it just being a prototype and I agree....to a point. This is Hasbro/wotc at one of the largest gaming conventions on the planet. IMO, they would not preview it so thoroughly and visually if it wasn't a good representation. I'd be willing to bet the final product is going to be pretty close to what has been displayed. (Edit: This point was made by many prior to me)

[Crixus33]

That thought would not have crossed my mind if you hadn't put it in the edit Rÿchean.

To reiterate the point: I don't understand any of the anger. It's a different game that looks really fun. Why hate it before trying it or even before it comes out? Enjoy it or don't enjoy it for the game it is, not the awesome game mechanics it employs.

[Hogg]

I don't see a problem here. There are several things that could happen here but none of them hurt Heroscape.

Worst case scenario:
The tiles don't fit Heroscape tiles and the new rules are unusable with Heroscape even with extensive customization. So we wouldn't add anything to the existing Heroscape experience except an interesting footnote in post-scape history.

Best case scenarios:
The tiles and board work with existing Heroscape products. The minis/cards are able to be integrated into the HS rules with minimal custom rules. New cardboard 3D objects, variant dice and glyphs.

If the game is successful there could be expansions with different terrain tiles we could use. If more games start using the same tiles there is a greater possibility of terrain-only expansions, especially if HS tiles become the standard terrain for all WotC miniature games. There could be even more third party support like the vinyl mats and the HyGround products.

If Ry is right (and I suspect he is) and this is close to the final product it seems like we won't get very many 3D tiles in a set. However, there is the flat board, which could be useful in map building. Especially since its getting so hard to find vinyl mats anymore. The dice and glyphs will probably look better in the final version too.

[Agent Minivann]

Originally Posted by Hogg

However, I'm not 100% sure they will work with our HS tiles. They did spend the time/money to resize them once before, when they used them as display bases for Marvel Legends figures. The scale was shrunken slightly and the tiles didn't interlock or stack with regular HS tiles. http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=40359

I thought about those for a couple seconds, but they were atypical shapes to begin with. They were going to need new molds all along.

[Chachi]

I'm just going to sell all my mtg cards and scape and be done with the madness

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by Agent Minivann

I thought about those for a couple seconds, but they were atypical shapes to begin with. They were going to need new molds all along.

They were a funny shape and I hope the re-scaling has to do with that. They were smaller though, and the other possibility is they were saving money by using less material. I do think it is likely that the new tiles will be in the same scale as HS, but its not guaranteed.

It would be dumb to make them a different scale than the normal HS tiles. But it would also be dumb to change the mini's base size "to better fit the scale of other mini games," cause a big uproar in the community, and then change right back to the original base size next time you make a miniature game like you forgot the whole reason for switching in the first place. (Look at the sizes of the bases on the new MTG figures, inconsistency bugs the hell out of me.)

[Elstree]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I am still excited about the possibility of a new miniatures skirmish game from Craig Van Ness. It doesn't have to be much like Heroscape to be a great game. Battleship Galaxies was great. Risk Legacy was great. This game will probably be great in its own way too.

Just to clarify, Craig Van Ness was not a designer on Risk Legacy. That was Rob Daviau, who also worked on HeroScape, but has had no role in this new game. I don't know why the Hasbro press release is trying to tie this to Risk Legacy. It's disingenuous.