Why do you not like (Or like) the D&D units?

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by Rogue A$$asSIN

I did not know what you meant about the flavor till I got caught licking one of the D&D figures, my wife yelled,"Really a Troll!" So now I am the Tiger Woods of HS D7D Trolls. Ps it did taste like it looked. 1 of of 5 how read this will lick a troll after they read this. ERRRRRR! Slow your roll right their, that is not a wife/girlfriend joke. Or is it?

Dnd in the 70s was really generic, limited only by your imigination. As it evolved it developed its own presonality so to speak. It started with campaign settings, which, at first, were offerings of how some designers played their games. Those campaign setting took off and developed their own characters and storylines, many of which are iconic. This has been cemented by countless novels, video games, trading cards, etc. Its not really possible to play a Forgotten Relams setting and not inclued Elminster in the world. He doesn't have to be involved in the campaign or ever make an appearance, but you know if the characters travel to Shadowdale he (or at least his tower) will be there.

Its not Generic anymore like HS was, its Iconic like HS has never been. The draw of HS is the same as the original DnD or GURPS. I want to imagine my own world, not be forced to use what others have dreamed up.

Theres no way to look at Tandros as anything other than a Human Fighter from Toril. I can look at a KMA and see MIB, Matrix, Geordi LaForge, or whatever else.

[Acinonyx]

Originally Posted by Demerean

I expect to see more archer elves in the future.

I'd be happy if they would sell me more of the elf archers that already exist. I only have one squad.

[Tai-Pan]

I didn't like DnDScape because it seemed to be more about DnD than HeroScape. I understand that using the miniatures over is cheaper and will help ensure HeroScape's future. I don't like how it kind of bent the 'rules' of HeroScape characters. According to the old HeroScape each race pretty much had a planet that it belonged to. Granted in the bios there were humans on other planets, but there haven't been any humans released that weren't. Then DnDScape comes out and EVERYTHING can be from the same planet. There are dragons (traditionally from Icaria), humans (earth), dwarves (feylund), and a bunch of other things. I think the DnD part should have conformed to the HeroScape, not the other way around. I don't have a problem with new worlds being introduced to HeroScape, but I think they should have followed the pattern of the past (each planet has its own kind of theme, and races come from one planet)

I think WotC shaped HeroScape to make it appeal to DnD fans, rather than integrate DnD into HeroScape, if that makes any sense. The values of DnD come before the values of HeroScape, that's why the abilities have to be translated and everyone has to be from Toril or Eberron instead of being DnD miniatures (and because of that, inherent DnD theme) from Feylund, Valhalla, and Earth.

I also feel that some things were just dumb and done only because it was 'DnDScape.' I think we would never have seen them happen if the transition had not been made. One specific thing would be having a Half-Elf. What? Why was it necessary to have a Half-Elf? I also have a beef with the Eladrin. At first I was like, 'what the heck, why isn't this guy just an elf.' Then I thought, well, maybe they are a different kind of elf, maybe Jandar will recruit Eladrin as a kind of High or Noble Elf as opposed to the lesser elves Ullar got. But then Sharwin went to Ullar, and that seemed just wrong. To me, it feels like DnD has violated several 'rules' of how characters work in ClassicScape.

Now, the peacemaking part. I want to make it clear that I DO enjoy DnDScape, I have bought EVERYTHING there is for HeroScape and will continue to do so. I had some initial reservations about the MS, but the terrain was awesome. D1 blew me away with its amazingness. I just think if a few things had been different, it would have been better.

In my mind, being loyal to ClassicScape and adhering to its 'character rules' would have looked like this:
Othkurik would have been from Icaria
The Elementals would have been magical beings from Valhalla, similar to the 'nature things' like the Obsidian and Granite Guards
Brandis would have been an elf or a human
The Eladrin would follow the same general or have been elves
Mogrimm and Darrack would have been from Feylund like the other dwarves

Again, I love the new stuff, and will continue to buy Scape in whatever form it comes in. I just have some things that I'm not so fond of.

[PHippo]

I am perfectly fine with DnD scape as long as it maintains it's quality, I would just like to see some more releases of core world figures.

[Cavalier]

D&D minis is NOT a true RPG, it is a miniatures combat game, much like scape.

And don't tell me Scape doesn't have icons. Jandar, Utgar, et al are iconic, as are Drake and Raelin.

[Tai-Pan]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

D&D minis is NOT a true RPG, it is a miniatures combat game, much like scape.

And don't tell me Scape doesn't have icons. Jandar, Utgar, et al are iconic, as are Drake and Raelin.

Drake and Raelin were actually something I had a problem with when they were redone and rereleased in SotM. That's probably my biggest complaint against classic though.

[odbo255]

Whether it was intentional, WotC marketing brought me to scape via DDM. This is in contrast to the often discussed: "Heroscape is being used to pimp D&D" meme.

I had meant to check out DDM for a couple of years, and when I finally got around to do so, they had canceled it!

NOTE: The DDM Guild performs "official" ongoing development of the game, sanctioned by WotC.

When I went to the hobby store and asked for DDM the guy said "Too bad, WotC canceled that game. But... they are planning on reusing the figures in this other game called Heroscape. Maybe you should check that out instead."

I've since bought a bunch of DDM figures to use for customs, but don't have any desire to learn how to play "Skirmish" (DDM).

[champrjk]

I don't like DnD scape purely because of the figures. I much prefer the style of the classic scape figures. I really like the abilities the DnD scape units have, (just like I love the classic scape abilities) but I just can't get over how much I dislike the DnD sculpts. If WotC separated DnD from Classic scape ,like what was done with Marvel, and produced both rather than just the DnD scape I'd have no complaints.

[Majora's Incarnation]

Alright, lets provide a different metaphorical perspective on the matter, to help others understand the mutual D&D despise:

Lets say there's this fruit market, that's made a prominent stand in the product industry selling apples. Now for a really long time, it has been selling apples, and has pleased its customers with its wide variety. All of a sudden, commodities are cut short, the market staggers for a bit, and the infamous fruit market returns, only instead of apples, its selling oranges. Now the biggest argument is that oranges are still fruit. It works together. What I'm saying is, the market once sold apples, and we grew accustomed to enjoying apples. Now the market is selling oranges and expecting us (the Heroscape community) to choke them down due to the fact we are still getting fruit.

Make sense?
This is why D&D is not a pleaser, so its not a good idea to go ahead and label anti-D&D players as "complainers".

[Quack188]

Okay, first things first. I see nothing wrong with D&DScape. I see no problem with the stories apparently being 'meshed' together. I don't see anything wrong with the planets the units are from, the fact that there are Eladrin and Half-elves, that the drow are 'small'. Personally, I'm pleased with how things are going. Don't get me wrong, I like all of the older stuff(Insert list of good classic units) and believe there will be more eventually but D&D is good for now. It is adding a good variety of units to the table. Sure, there won't be robots or soldiers from WW2, but maybe we could use some more fantasy stuff. After all, isn't there fantasy in HeroScape?

Originally Posted by Tai-Pan

I didn't like DnDScape because it seemed to be more about DnD than HeroScape. I understand that using the miniatures over is cheaper and will help ensure HeroScape's future. I don't like how it kind of bent the 'rules' of HeroScape characters. According to the old HeroScape each race pretty much had a planet that it belonged to. Granted in the bios there were humans on other planets, but there haven't been any humans released that weren't. Then DnDScape comes out and EVERYTHING can be from the same planet. There are dragons (traditionally from Icaria), humans (earth), dwarves (feylund), and a bunch of other things. I think the DnD part should have conformed to the HeroScape, not the other way around. I don't have a problem with new worlds being introduced to HeroScape, but I think they should have followed the pattern of the past (each planet has its own kind of theme, and races come from one planet)

I'm pretty sure everything in HeroScape was made up, just like everything in D&D was made up. Who's to say that there can't be a planet where a large variety of species live. I mean, it is just a game. Does anyone really look at the Basic Game side of the cards anyway?

Originally Posted by PHippo

The other nice thing about classic was that it didn't try to choke us with back story. Yeah we got tid-bits with the bios and Thormun's journal (whatever happened to those by the way), but nothing compared to the absolute tomes that have been written about DnD history and back story. For example: Who the heck is Raknar, or Zanifor, or Mallidon? But most importantly: does it really matter? With DnD if you asked these kinds of questions you'd find books written on the subject and frankly I don't like having to reconcile this with the mixing of the two stories. Yes Torril and Eberron are just some other planet that the valkyrie generals can summon from, but never have we had a planet with so complete a history, and it's entirely uneccesary for the game.

Yeah, D&D does have a lot of back story. If you want to read it. Heroscape has some too, probably not half as much, but it's there. I'm assuming a lot of people choose not to read it. Which is probably what you should do with D&D. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to read it.

If you wanted to field an army of soulborgs for example, you wouldn't go to the Heroscape Compendium and read everything there is to know about Soulborgs. Granted, some people might, but that's up to them. So, if you have D&D anything, you don't need to read about it.

As for the Eladrin and Half-elves not being elves. It was most likely done because of the amount of elves that already exist and the fact that there's a lot of synergy.

D&D is fine with me. I don't see anything wrong with the units, the story, the species of the units or the world they come from. Maybe I like fantasy too much. I'm excited to see what else we get from D&D.

[JairEmia]

Hmmm, i don't necessarily dislike DND scape, but i do not particularly like most of the figures, they are just a little bit different from classic scape figures, not as chunky i guess. It just kinda throws me off. That said i do own, Darrak amber and Mogrimm.

[Tai-Pan]

Originally Posted by Quack188

I'm pretty sure everything in HeroScape was made up, just like everything in D&D was made up. Who's to say that there can't be a planet where a large variety of species live. I mean, it is just a game. Does anyone really look at the Basic Game side of the cards anyway?

You're right, of course, everything was made up and there weren't any concrete 'character rules' that had been established. However, there was a preset pattern that waves 1-10 had followed, and then D1 kind of did its own thing. As far as I can tell, there is no reason why the changes in the pattern were made other than it was DnDScape. If Classic had decided on some of the characters we got from DnDScape, I believe they would have followed the same pattern they previously had. If they wanted to create a new world, I believe they would have, but that world would follow the previous pattern and have a certain theme/taste to it.

I'm kind of looking at the reasons behind things, and it seems to me like in many things with DnDscape, there either wasn't a reason, or the reason was simply that it was DnD and had to carry some allegiance to that. DnD didn't integrate into the system that preceded it, it took over and changed things.

With the Eladrin, I don't have a problem with them not being elves. I think it would have been better if it were setup to where Jandar had the High Elves (Eladrin), Ullar the normal or lower Elves (Elves), and Utgar the dark Elves (Drow). To me, it makes little sense why Sharwin went to Ullar instead of establishing Eladrin as another Jandar race.