How To Properly Sell-out

[Maccamac]

Originally Posted by caravaggio

in another thread i posted this in response to grungebob suggesting that the game had reached "classic status". it seems to really relate here. i would like to note that i don't think "Selling out" in general is a bad thing as long as you don't "jump the shark". enough with the cliches....

"CLASSIC STATUS" is not something i ever considered. despite the sad state of affairs over the last 2 years i suppose it IS possible that the game has become a classic and that every other year it could be rebranded and resold. personally i've always thought that the main goal with this game (while it was at Hasbro) was to get it popular enough that every few months a new "licensed" wave would be released to compliment our beloved "generic" masterset.

For example, we all knew that the masterset was probably the least profittable aspect of the game and that the goal was to sell lots and lots of boosters. i just assumed that after a few booster waves to get the ball rolling, we'd be seeing a GI JOE wave, then a SPIDERMAN wave, then TRANSFORMERS, then whatever movie was out that summer, etc. if a license only provided enough figures for one or two boosters you could always supplement with our generic figures to round out the 4 packs but i just thought this would be a given.

what doesn't work for me with this dungeons and dragons thing is 1) that the masterset is weak (not a strong generic platform for any license like the rise of the valkyrie was) and 2) that the figures are repaints.

i'd be totally down with the dungeons and dragons waves assuming they used the same sculptor (every iteration of RISK has warranted new sculpts, right?) and that it was part of a larger scheme to release lots of other licensed waves.




i'll sum up what i think was originally intended for the game and would be a great place to be in 2011.

• a really killer, generic masterset
• multiple licenses issued as waves (using same sculptor)
• possible large expansions to compliment current license with terrain and obstacles
• classic scape boosters/terrain as needed to round out that year's current lineup.

i think the game had to reach a certain status (ie: become a "classic") for it to be able to attract the licensing offers it would need for the scenario i've laid out to take place. but if grungebob is right and we have reached "classic status" then this is completely doable. which is just another reason i'm not a fan of the dungeons and dragons (or marvel) mastersets. dungeons and dragons waves? fine... but along with star wars waves, marvel waves, GI JOE, Lord of the Rings etc.

the game would not be in danger of losing it's genre-bending roots, would attract new players from each new pack and would still be classic-scape at its core (ie: the masterset).

the direction its taking now could just mean that 2010 will be the dungeons and dragons year, 2011 could bring us a GI JOE themed masterset and waves. at this point i think that's what "classic status" will get us. maybe after a few years we'll see a renewed interest in classic-scape and we'll be back to the way things were in '06/'07 but who knows.

Now I`m Annoyed. You guys in the US have it all on a plate heroscape,d&d,Star wars in fact anything miniature,you can walk into Walmart(Asda as we know it) and there it is.(Other stores are available?)
Heroscape,for us here in blighty,is mighty hard to get hold of and any kind of release,be it waves or master sets,is gladly welcomed,by the slim following Heroscape has over here.
Selling out is not an option for us over here and I`m sure you won`t get any moans from us in reference to it being a teletubbies edition or even robocop edition just so long as we get our fix????
I understand and appreciate where everyone is coming from over in the US.
We are the same with Doctor Who,because its all over the place,we take it for granted,that,when something new comes out our attitude is,"Oh is that it?"
But please for your British cousins could you please all stop moaning on about re-paint this,I would have liked this etc...
Let us all stand firm and rejoice in the fact that because of all of us! Heroscape will carry on in one form or another for some time to come,whether it be in America or Britain.
Thank you and goodnight.

[caravaggio]

Britain got Sammy Braddy and Lucy Pinder, we got Heroscape. see, it all balances out in the end.

[Kroc]

Hmm, looking for a thread, can't find it...

I remember somewhere there was serious discussions about crossovers versus more classic HS. One of the repetitive comments from the "con" crowd was that it would limit the amount of time spent developing classic HS.

I still think this is true. I sure hope we don't see another crossover in 2011. The main hold up is the quality playtesters, as they've shown they can just reuse sculpts. Like the Truth said they all playtested the new DnD stuff, are they going to test the new Star Wars and GI Joe stuff?

Personally I don't believe the fears about selling out. Like Onacara said in the comments, they haven't had time to develop a standard master set, so they just hobbled this one together to give us something to salivate over.

I could be wrong, but looking at wave 9 I have to say it seems that HS is just getting better and better. Unfortunately I don't think WOTC has had time to develop a new expansion yet. Hopefully that will be one of the other "many exciting developments" in 2010. (Who did originally say that...) I don't think a DnD wave 11 and 12 are what these people are referring to.

I do think this new expansion will bring hoards of new players to the game. All those snobby DnD players will start blending DnD and HS. To the detriment of HS if WOTC follows their lead, but I think that will just be another "custom rules" forum. I think in the end HS will suck fans out of the DnD base and CLASSIC HS will end up stronger and more profitable from it.

[chas]

One of the key elements in Classic is the blending heroes and squads. One of the problems with MarvelScape is that its all heroes (and very strong ones at that). But I've always said that Marvel should be part of the larger Classic Universe, and many others seem to agree.

I--and another site member I won't mention by name, because I don't want to speak for him--feel that the ULTMATE HS game would be one where an adventure team would be made up of, for example, one strong and one medium hero, leading squad type members in a good campaign against a variable team of opponents. Let's call this 'Novelistic Scape.'

Both themed Mastersets now have a team of all heroes. But eventually, we'll be able to integrate everything (yes, including Marvel) and make up our own stories, scenarios, etc. choosing to balance the teams as we prefer. This is what non-tournament play is all about for me: being creative with what we're given! Especially since it doesn't seem that we're going to get another General set like ROTV any time soon! In a fun setting, even the lowly Ashigaru spearman has his place.

On another thread, someone said that they like to keep the HS figures generic, so they both suggest a type and an individual figure like something we've worked with in the past. Whether specific or generic, it all goes into the mix, just as terrain does. Especially since whatever WOTC issues, it won't be exactly what any of us want...

[AnubianWolf88]

Back on topic...

I do like the theme of the question. "Properly selling out." Best example I can think of is in music - The Offspring come to mind. They have remained somewhat true to their punk/ska roots, while packaging their music in such a way to sell albums. And, yes, making money. That's as American as it gets.

So if selling out means that I get remolded Skeletons and Fimirs from Heroquest (another CVN game), with new paints, or even a Chaos Warlord, then bring it on. Cut costs, but keep developing new product and play mechanics.

(makes note to play Heroquest with the kids)

I don't know what's coming, but I like what I see thus far. I have stated this before: Heroscape is the first game that I have EVER cared about. It's like puppy love. And I haven't been disappointed yet, so would you all please join me in my tweenage delusions? (or not. It's a free country. Geez.)

AW88

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by Kroc

Personally I don't believe the fears about selling out. Like Onacarasaid in the comments, they haven't had time to develop a standard master set, so they just hobbled this one together to give us something to salivate over.

They had over a year and a half to develop something. All they came back with was the wave 10 reprints and the DnD set that is still six months out. Not exactly in a hurry it seems.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, it does more seem like they haven't put in the money/resources to develop things more than they haven't had the time.

[Drumline3469]

After wave 9 my thoughts were "Man, Heroscape is really picking up." but after seeing wave 10... It just seems like they really don't want to shell a ton of money into it right now and are just sorta cutting corners with the sculpts and such. It will be interesting to see what happens after the DnD stuff.

[Einar's_Strategist]

Blindly guessing why it was done, or trying to figure out how it will end, or just complaining about it doesn't achieve anything. We may or may not be told why it was done, and it doesn't matter. If you set your attitude about something before you try it won't help. Now open your mouth and eat that darn spinach.

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Yeah, it does more seem like they haven't put in the money/resources to develop things more than they haven't had the time.

Have you read their financial reports? I don't think they had the money or resources to put into it over the last year and a half. The fact that they're doing something now, even a partial thing, is an indication of improvement.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

Have you read their financial reports?

No ... I just play the game.

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

Have you read their financial reports?

Can't be as bad as my financial report every time they release a new set.