The Book of Airborne Elite

[Oyhedwig]

Apologies, if this is a repeat question...
When counting starting spaces (24 for a 500 pointer), do you count the Airborne Elite if they are on your team?

What I mean is, if you have all 24 hexes filled, could you also have the Airborne as they don't start on the field?

[Jexik]

Although Grungebob says he talked to someone from Hasbro shortly before GenCon '07, and was informed that AE/Rechets do count toward your starting space limitations. That's how it was played there.

There are some tournament organizers who disagree though, because they never saw it in 'official' writing.

I think there are good arguments on both sides of the debate, but the AE are still worth their points when they count toward your starting spaces.

It's funny that you mention that 1st round drops are the best time to get them, I prefer a 2nd or 3rd round drop when I'm playing the Airborne, but I'm not a big fan of the grenades. When I try that, it seems like I always lose initiative and lose half my squad.

[gamjuven]

Originally Posted by Oyhedwig

Good point. I hear a lot about first round grenades on a start zone, but usually I do the most damage with the AE later in the game. The long range with four attacks (most likely with a height advantage), is what makes them shine in my opinion.

Thanks for the responses regarding the start zone.

I agree. Their grenade attack may kill a few vipers or blastatrons, but they will be killed an order marker later (and most likely will not earn their pts back). Putting them on height to take out heroes or as much of a squad as possible is a much better idea. They are awesome in that regard. Nothing fills me with dread as much as an opposing army that has the AE.

[rdhight]

To me, start zone spaces are just that: the physical amount of room you have available on the map. No more, no less. If you have a lot of two-hex figures, and your start zone is bumpy, and you can't fit them all legally, tough. If you have AE/Rechets and save some space, great.

I would certainly still use the AE if they were to count for four spaces-- it just seems wrong to me that they would.

[Rÿchean]

This is what we have to work with:

From the SOTM rule book:

If there are more Army figures than spaces in the starting zone, then you can't use the extra figures.

From the AE Card:

Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield.
_______

Both are very clear and neither make reference to the other. It doesn't say they AE exempt from start zone rules. It says they do not start on the battle field.

The rulebook is providing the governor to determine the maximum number of hexes your army can take up on the board. It makes no provision for whether or not those figures actually start on the board. It is saying that if you have more figures than spaces you cant use the figures. Whether they start on the board or not is irrelevant.

[rdhight]

I guess I feel it's not about counting the hexes occupied by the bases of every figure in your army and comparing to the number of hexes in the start zone. What matters is physically fitting those figures into the actual start zone on the map. If the start zone is under an overhang, some tall figures won't be able to play. If the start zone is bumpy, you might not be able to get a bunch of two-hex squad figures to mesh together perfectly. If there are ladders in the start zone, little guys like nagrubs and rats are going to be able to crowd in and stack up where a large or huge figure couldn't. If your own Nilf or Grimnak is spilling over into more spaces then his base occupies, you forfeit the spaces covered by his wing/tail unless you can physically fit something there.

At my table, if the AE don't physically use a space, they don't count. I'm not saying that's the only way to read the rules, but I think physical placement on the map is not what matters, not the bases-to-spaces count.

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

This is what we have to work with:

From the SOTM rule book:

If there are more Army figures than spaces in the starting zone, then you can't use the extra figures.

From the AE Card:

Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield.
_______

Both are very clear and neither make reference to the other. It doesn't say they AE exempt from start zone rules. It says they do not start on the battle field.

The rulebook is providing the governor to determine the maximum number of hexes your army can take up on the board. It makes no provision for whether or not those figures actually start on the board. It is saying that if you have more figures than spaces you cant use the figures. Whether they start on the board or not is irrelevant.

It is clear and unambiguous. Whether one chooses to play by the official rules is always an open question; but, in this case, there is no question what the rule is.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

It is clear and unambiguous. Whether one chooses to play by the official rules is always an open question; but, in this case, there is no question what the rule is.

Uh, yes. In fact, there is a question what the rule is. I'm questioning it. Nor am I the only one in this thread who questions it.

A page back, Cavalier and Jexik both reported that some tournaments go one way and some another on this issue. Is that what you call clear and unambiguous?

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by rdhight

Uh, yes. In fact, there is a question what the rule is. I'm questioning it. Nor am I the only one in this thread who questions it.

A page back, Cavalier and Jexik both reported that some tournaments go one way and some another on this issue. Is that what you call clear and unambiguous?

Choosing to ignore or disagree with a clearly stated rule doesn't make it less clearly stated.

[LongHeroscaper]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Choosing to ignore or disagree with (or not knowing about) a clearly stated rule doesn't make it less clearly stated.

[Revdyer]

You are right to correct my statement, LongHeroscaper. I did not take into account the possibility of simply "not knowing."

[Rÿchean]

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

This is what we have to work with:

From the SOTM rule book:

If there are more Army figures than spaces in the starting zone, then you can't use the extra figures.

From the AE Card:

Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield.
_______

Originally Posted by rdhight

Uh, yes. In fact, there is a question what the rule is.

And I am answering the question.

The bolded sentences in my post are word for word form the rule book and the card. The rules are indeed clear. The way some have chosen to selectively apply them is what has made the issue unclear. If one looks at only the rules and the card I do not see how one can draw the conclusion that the AE do not count against your starting hexes.

Players read the card and assume more than what it is saying. The biggest incorrect assumption is that the AE are exempt from being counted as figures at the beginning of the game. Their card definitely does not say that. The AE are not exempt from your figure to starting space count. They are only exempt from starting on the battlefield.