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Reload this Page C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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  #1033  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 11:13 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking when they tested him. Scarlet Witch was around as they playtested Strange with her but they didn't test the power by testing against her.
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  #1034  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
I've been following this a little bit and I can understand some concern. As far as the fun factor to play against him, I hope that is also a consideration for other units that can be drafted as counters against specific armies. I mean, if one player wants to have an all squad army and the opponent can draft a figure that annihilates squaddies, then that may not be fun either. Just being devil's advocate here, because there may be other situations where a figure isn't "fun" against certain armies.

Another devil's advocate thing. While Dr. Strange wasn't tested against others with Magical Defense to be able to factor in Sorcerer Supreme, that would mean he wasn't tested against a bunch of MD units that would negate his own MD special power.

Not sure if that matters for anyone, I just hadn't seen that being discussed, as it was all about Sorcerer Supreme vs. MD opponents, and not how MD opponents could affect him.
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  #1035  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 01:22 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Another devil's advocate thing. While Dr. Strange wasn't tested against others with Magical Defense to be able to factor in Sorcerer Supreme, that would mean he wasn't tested against a bunch of MD units that would negate his own MD special power.
That doesn't really matter - SS negates all the powers of someone with MD, including MD, so they wouldn't have MD to cut through his MD. Now, from a literal perspective, you could say they no longer have MD so are no longer negated, but that results in an infinite loop that breaks the time/space continuum and I think the intent is pretty clear here. The only figure who can really break through Strange's Magical Defence, except by outranging Sorcerer Supreme, is Black Knight.

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  #1036  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 02:35 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
We could remove Sorceror Supreme entirely but then we've got... a really boring card. One power that occasionally removes OMs and generic Magical Defense? Not exactly something to set the world on fire.

The card exists as is. He's a card counter for Magical Defense figures. You can argue that hard counters are unfun or whatever, but that's a philosophical opinion - a counterdraft to certain army types has its place in my mind. As long as we moderate the power enough to not warp the metagame, and price him appropriately, it's a non-issue.
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  #1037  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 02:43 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Another devil's advocate thing. While Dr. Strange wasn't tested against others with Magical Defense to be able to factor in Sorcerer Supreme, that would mean he wasn't tested against a bunch of MD units that would negate his own MD special power.
That doesn't really matter - SS negates all the powers of someone with MD, including MD, so they wouldn't have MD to cut through his MD. Now, from a literal perspective, you could say they no longer have MD so are no longer negated, but that results in an infinite loop that breaks the time/space continuum and I think the intent is pretty clear here. The only figure who can really break through Strange's Magical Defence, except by outranging Sorcerer Supreme, is Black Knight.
Okay, so outranging Sorcerer Supreme isn't an option or is totally negligible? A figure with MD and is 4 or 5 spaces away will be able to negate his MD. Just saying that this also wasn't tested because of lack of MD units back then, but it is still something that can hurt him.

Nobody is concerned that for 190 points, Doctor Light can totally negate Sorcerer Supreme and Eye of Agamotto used for ranged attacks?

Alternately, since people have brought up how Doctor Strange's player can totally lock down opponent MD units with various DS teammates, then perhaps that could be something that could be used to tone him down. If it's a viable strategy for his player, then why couldn't it be a viable strategy by his opponent's player as well?

The wording might not be "official" based on use on other cards, but you get the idea.

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SORCERER SUPREME
If Doctor Strange is not engaged, opponents' figures that have the Magical Defense special power and are within 3 clear sight spaces of Doctor Strange or start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of Doctor Strange, may not use any special power on their Army Cards. Figures with a Wise personality are not affected by Sorcerer Supreme.
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  #1038  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 02:45 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
We could remove Sorceror Supreme entirely but then we've got... a really boring card. One power that occasionally removes OMs and generic Magical Defense? Not exactly something to set the world on fire.

The card exists as is. He's a card counter for Magical Defense figures. You can argue that hard counters are unfun or whatever, but that's a philosophical opinion - a counterdraft to certain army types has its place in my mind. As long as we moderate the power enough to not warp the metagame, and price him appropriately, it's a non-issue.
I agree Johnny. Take away Sorcerer Supreme, and he would be unfun to play in your army, and he's not nothing against enemy MD units, unless you plan to stack all your OM's on him. Oh yea! That's living there.
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  #1039  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 03:14 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Seems to me that Hahma is on to something here. My thought is that perhaps shrinking his footprint would help. From 3 clear sight spaces to 2 maybe. I'd even consider 1 with a possible "X" Order Marker boost. It's really important to me that this power be reusable though. Lastly, I'm a fan of losing one of the two caveats, but not an advocate. Just seems like another easy tweak if one isn't enough.
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  #1040  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 03:51 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
We could remove Sorceror Supreme entirely but then we've got... a really boring card. One power that occasionally removes OMs and generic Magical Defense? Not exactly something to set the world on fire.

The card exists as is. He's a card counter for Magical Defense figures. You can argue that hard counters are unfun or whatever, but that's a philosophical opinion - a counterdraft to certain army types has its place in my mind. As long as we moderate the power enough to not warp the metagame, and price him appropriately, it's a non-issue.
The card's boring now. It's just also terrible to play against and hurts design space in an aggressively unthematic way. If we can make him just boring, that's a pretty big step forward.

EDIT: That's maybe a bit harsh, but I really don't see how the card is suddenly a dud if you take away his unfun unthematic super-counter ability that was not in any way tested.

EDIT TWO: I should clarify again that my ultimate preference is for a very short, streamlined version of the power that gives him a leg up on other MD units without passively negating them entirely. Ideally something that would keep him pretty close to 300 after retesting. But removing the power entirely seems like a viable alternative to me.
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  #1041  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 04:20 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
The 'being engaged turns the power off' certainly would rein the power in quite a bit as you can either directly engage him with your MD figure or with another ally figure if your MD figure gets locked down in some way. It also seems thematic in that once engaged he is too distracted to magically shut down another MD figure.
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  #1042  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 04:25 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Totally disagree with you all. Eye of Agamatto is a very fun power.

Anyway, if you want to design a new power, do so, but do it on a different card.
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  #1043  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 05:10 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
For what it's worth, I've played him before against no MD figures and found him fun (plus, being the only Wise figure to cast the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak right now gives him a little extra oomph .

I totally disagree with Hahma and johnny's points here. This guy just isn't fun to play with or against when there are magic users in the enemy army - that's a big problem for me, especially when magic users like Mordo are some of his most thematic matchups - it'd be like having a Batman or Spider-Man who can just negate Criminals without even trying. If a thematic matchup is boring and one sided, you've got a big problem... and yeah, actually, sometimes I do find Doctor Light to be unfun, and rarely take him as a result, but at least he was tested appropriately, has his uses and is significantly more fragile.
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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
The 'being engaged turns the power off' certainly would rein the power in quite a bit as you can either directly engage him with your MD figure or with another ally figure if your MD figure gets locked down in some way. It also seems thematic in that once engaged he is too distracted to magically shut down another MD figure.
Heh, it worked for Puppet Master. I'd actually be up for trying that.

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  #1044  
Old February 3rd, 2018, 05:32 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
With Crow getting wrapped up is Strange up next or is there another card we need to deal with first?
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