The Book of Godzilla

[quozl]

Nice! Thanks Splash!

[toyhandle]

One thing I do not want to be is the Terror of Toyhandle.

But I have to ask, are there Giganto and Fin Fang Foom designs in the works? Is there an estimated point value for those figures? Are there considerations as to how this figure would work with/against those in the future? How did 1000 become the agreed upon appropriate value for Godzilla?

1000 seems at minimum 200pts too low for the character, but I see him around 1600 or higher in any incarnation.

My lack of minis IRL forces me to play with the Marvel-Hasbro minis and corresponding C3G cards, so I'm biased in that regard.
But Spider-man, Cap, Hulk and Iron Man (Avengers) shouldn't out-cost Godzilla. They should think "We're screwed without Thor!"

If Thor, Spider-Man, Cap, Hulk and Iron Man were faced with Galactus and Godzilla at the same time, I'd imagine they'd try to convince Galactus to fight Godzilla with them, while trying to direct Godzilla's attacks in Galactus' way. Either way, 1000 seems too low a goal.

And I also don't understand the desire for Godzilla and Kong to be the same height.

The King Kong in King Kong vs Godzilla (1962) is not the Kong reflected in C3G.
The height and powers of the C3G Kong reflect the original 1933 version.
To date, the only Kong that has fought Godzilla is hardly Kong at all, and more like King Kong*.

The '62 version is not just far larger than the '33 version.
Due to the pre-production of the film beginning as King Kong vs Frankenstein, changing the script meant Kong adopted Frankenstein-related abilities.
The notable moments in Kong/Godzilla's fight is Kong being strengthened by electricity, brushing off atomic breath, and shoving a whole tree down Godzilla's throat.
For a more detailed explanation as to why, here's an interesting video:

YouTube (Short URL)

Another reason I also don't understand the desire for the two characters to match height is because C3G Kong is 400 pts. Is there a 600pt(minimum) supplement that is meant to make a Kong/Godzilla fight thematic?
To a Giant-Monster fan, when asked who would win, if the debate is referring to the '33 Kong, the answer is that Godzilla steps on him and goes on with his day. It'd make far more sense to design a Toho-Kong to be compatible with Godzilla instead of denying Godzilla a design that represents him in proportion.

If there is a single figure to design Giant Monsters around, Godzilla is it.

King Kong (1933) is a cinematic landmark, combining nearly every practical effect available at the time in such spectacular fashion, that through the expression of its craft is more commonly identified as art than just a big blockbuster special effects film.
"No film has captivated my imagination more than 'King Kong.' I'm making movies today because I saw this film when I was 9 years old."
-Peter Jackson (who felt the need to make Lord of the Rings movies that occupy a similar cinematic space of being fantasy/effects films with intricacy enough to earn 17 Oscars, and all before his take on Kong)

Godzilla on the other hand, is not quite a Hollywood Effects Film, and more of an expression of the horror of the Atomic Bomb on Japan as given by Japanese Film-Artist Ishiro Honda. Quite different goals in mind. The use of suits instead of stop motion was due to the available budget and other restrains requiring different methods of comparable effect, so quite different methods as well.
"It is recognized by Guinness World Records to be the longest continuously running movie franchise, having been in ongoing production from 1954 to the present day, with several hiatuses of varying lengths."
Godzilla's power and influence may not translate well to the world of comics, but it can be a challenge to overstate his relevance in film. He's the Superman of his territory.

To many a Godzilla fan, Kong would rank below Mothra, Ghidrah and even Rodan and Anguirus. To many, Kong occupies his own space, and is more of a very special guest-star.

And speaking of spaces, I looked in Table Top Simulator to see how a 30cm Godzilla would fit on the board, and he should fit similar to the design I'm quoting below.

I will say, when deciding which units I wanted to invest in, Master Mold using an Iron-Man action figure caused the design to be an automatic pass for me.
BeardBeyond's amazing work fitting the Heroclix Master Mold to the 8-Hex fit he created completely turned that around for me. Although it hasn't officially been adopted, discussion after his post seemed to indicate it would require new movement rules for the figure, but wouldn't affect the figure beyond restricting it more. I'd love for those new movement rules to be worked out and used for Godzilla.

Originally Posted by BeardBeyond

Been busy with projects for other board games, but finally decided it was time to rebase this big guy (to be able to fit a few more figures on the shelf next to him XD).



Custom base made from 2 large peanuts.



How big boi fits.






Up close view from all sides. He will require custom movement rules and his increased footprints (both literally and figuratively) do come with disadvantages for him as a unit, but when I saw him I just knew I needed his actual figure in Heroscape.

Link to discussion:https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...24#post2352224

[tcglkn]

Toyhandle, we truly appreciate your feedback here and understand you are enthusiastic for the character, but going larger than double spaced is something that we avoid at all costs. Currently there are no plans for Fin Fang Foom but when we get to Giganto I plan for him to be around 700-800 points. With many of our characters you can justify a wide range of costs and we try to come up with a fun design and balance the cost around that.

One of the most important things to keep in mind is that Heroscape is a game, not a simulation. So it is important that everything we do be the most fun version possible, even if we have to sacrifice a little bit of theme. I think you will find that if you play with this version of Godzilla with the figure we have selected that he is enjoyable and playable. I know personally the more rules associated with a design the less interested I am in using it and trying to come up with special rules to cover his movement if he was more than double spaced would take away a lot of the fun aspect for me.

[IAmBatman]

My take is that we have plenty of room for a second version that is bigger and costs more and it’d be great if you lead it, Toyhandle.

As for this smaller version, it’s fun, it fits on a map, 1,000 points is a great place to get into regular play, and we are just about wrapped up here so I don’t see a major course change being worthwhile at this juncture.

I think your best bet is to channel all that great passion and energy into starting work on Godzilla (II). I know a number of folks want a larger take, so I think if you did that, it would be well-recieved. There is room in the project for that version and this one both.

[MrNobody]

Also, just to provide some context (that you had no real way of knowing), this design came from a pretty lengthy behind-the-scenes debate about stuff like point cost and especially figure size. There were a lot of us (me and johnny139 especially) who wanted to use a larger and more accurate figure, while others wanted to use a smaller and more convenient figure. Obviously the smaller team won out here.

Part of the logic that convinced me was that if you ever want to do a Kaiju battle with multiple of the creatures, that would be incredibly hard to do if they’re all massive-scaled. The double base size, while obviously a bit inaccurate, allows multiple of the guys to easily coexist on the same battlefield (or even in the same army) at around the same scale.

But like Bats says, I don’t think anyone would disagree with the idea of a second Godzilla that is larger!

[Lord Pyre]

If we end up making tons of these guys, field then all together as this size, then use building alike Monsterpocalypse building as obstacles on the map so it feels epic scaled

[SIEGE]

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Godzilla

Version Tested

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = GODZILLA
SPECIES = KAIJU
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = DESTROYER
PERSONALITY = FEROCIOUS
SIZE = HUGE

LIFE 20

MOVE 7
RANGE 1
ATTACK 6
DEFENSE 5
POINTS=1000

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION
While moving, Godzilla: may destroy any adjacent destructible object or unoccupied obstacle; may move through and never takes leaving engagement attacks from figures that are not huge; and does not stop his movement when entering water spaces. After moving, roll 1 unblockable attack die against each figure Godzilla moved through.

KING OF THE MONSTERS
You may add 4 attack dice to Godzilla's normal attack if one of the following is true:
• Godzilla did not move this turn; or
• Godzilla attacks a Huge figure or a destructible object.

ATOMIC BREATH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
After taking a turn with Godzilla, place an Atomic Charge marker on this card. You may remove 4 Atomic Charge markers from this card to use this special attack. Choose 8 spaces in a straight line from Godzilla. All figures on the chosen spaces and in clear sight of Godzilla are affected by this special attack. Roll 4 attack dice for all affected figures. Each skull rolled counts as one additional hit. Figures roll defense separately.

SUPER STRENGTH

Army Test
Map: Icy Road Battlefield
Units: Destroyers (Godzilla, Thunderers of Qward x3) (1390) vs Fantastic Four+ (Invisible Woman, Thing, Human Torch, Mr. Fantastic, Silver Surfer (Adventurer)) (1400)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Fantastic Four+. Invisible Woman, Thing, Torch, and Mr. Fantastic all advance along the edge of the snow and ice. 2 Thunderers move out along edge of snow and ice as well. Silver Surfer moves behind a ruin. Thing and Mr. Fantastic continue to advance along the edge of the snow and ice. 2 more Thunderers move out. Invisible Woman moves near center of the map on road. Silver Surfer rushes out and uses Power Cosmic to destroy a Thunderer. Silver Surfer then moves back with Cosmic Speed. Mr. Fantastic moves onto road near middle of map. Godzilla advances and destroys a bridge wall and ruin.

Round 2: Initiative Fantastic Four+. Mr. Fantastic moves across snow and attacks Godzilla from range. Deals 1 wound. Godzilla tramples Mr. Fantastic and Silver Surfer and destroys a big glacier to get to Invisible Woman. Deals 1 wound to Mr. Fantastic and 1 wound to Invisible Woman. Invisible Woman disengages from Godzilla and attacks him dealing 1 wound. Silver Surfer moves away from Godzilla and attacks from height using Power Cosmic to deal 4 wounds to Godzilla. Mr. Fantastic moves up to attack a Thunderer and misses. Godzilla moves through and next to Invisible Woman destroying another glacier. Attacks Invisible Woman for 1 wound. Invisible Woman moves away from Godzilla, attacks, and misses. Mr. Fantastic attacks a Thunderer and misses. Godzilla moves through and next to Invisible Woman. Deals 1 wound from Wake of Destruction and 2 wounds from attack destroying her. Silver surfer, Thing, and Torch end the round in a straight line with each other and Godzilla’s Atomic Breath is charged.

Round 3: Initiative Fantastic Four+. Good thing Fantastic Four+ won initiative. Silver Surfer flies across the snow and ice to get out of line and blasts Godzilla from height with Power Cosmic dealing 4 wounds. Silver Surfer moves two spaces to get out of line with Mr. Fantastic Mr. Fantastic attacks a Thunderer and misses. Godzilla moves over Thing and destroys big tree. Uses Atomic Breath on Thing and Torch but rolls all blanks! Mr. Fantastic attacks the same Thunderer and misses again! Godzilla tramples Thing and Human Torch dealing 1 wound to each and destroys a ruin. Godzilla attacks Thing for 1 wound. Human Torch uses Flame On and wounds Godzilla. Human Torch moves to height and hits Godzilla for 1 wound. Thing attacks Godzilla for 2 wounds. Mr. Fantastic misses again! Godzilla attacks Thing using King of the Monsters. 5 skulls vs 1 defense. Thing is destroyed.

Round 4: Initiative Godzilla. Godzilla tramples Human Torch for 1 wound. Torch defends against Godzilla’s attack. Human Torch wounds Godzilla using Flame On. Torch goes Supernova! 4 skulls vs 0 shields. Godzilla drops! Godzilla had a full charge for Atomic Breath but never got to use it! Mr. Fantastic finally destroys the Thunderer. Godzilla loses a turn. Human Torch moves toward Mr. Fantastic, Silver Surfer, and the remaining enemies. Silver Surfer uses Power Cosmic rolling 6 skulls and destroys a Thunderer. Mr. Fantastic destroys another Thunderer. Two Thunderers engage Mr. Fantastic and deal 1 wound. Human Torch moves toward Mr. Fantastic, Silver Surfer, and the remaining enemies but is still out of range. Silver Surfer and Mr. Fantastic destroy the remaining two Thunderers.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Mr. Fantastic {3/5}, Human Torch {3/5}, Silver Surfer (Adventurer) {6/6}

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Icy Road Battlefield
Units: Destroyers (Godzilla, Thunderers of Qward x3) (1390) vs Avengers (Iron Man (Avengers), Captain America (Steve Rogers, C3G), Incredible Hulk (C3G), Thor, Bruce Banner) (1390)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Godzilla. Godzilla destroys a bridge wall and small tree. Moves along the edge of the snow and ice. Captain America moves along edge of snow and ice. 2 Thunderers move toward Godzilla. Ironman flies onto road behind a glacier. 2 more Thunderers move toward Godzilla. Hulk super leaps across the snow behind tree on the other side of the map.

Round 2: Initiative Avengers. Hulk moves up to Godzilla and attacks Godzilla dealing 3 wounds. 1 Thunderer engages Hulk and misses. Another Thunderer attacks from range but not while adjacent to Godzilla. Also misses. Hulk attacks Godzilla and misses. Godzilla did not destroy a ruin that he should have destroyed last turn. Because of this, the Thunderers cannot get into a position where they are adjacent to Godzilla but not engaged with the Hulk. 2 Thunderers attack Hulk dealing 1 wound. Hulk attacks Godzilla dealing 4 wounds. Godzilla attacks Hulk with King of the Monsters dealing 3 wounds. Hulk realizes he needs to retreat and revert to Bruce Banner.

Round 3: Initiative Godzilla. Hulk is too slow. Godzilla attacks Hulk with King of the Monsters dealing 4 wounds and destroying him. Hulk loses a turn. Godzilla destroys two trees and a big glacier to engage Iron Man but misses. Iron Man leaves engagement with Godzilla. Moves back toward start zone and on height. Takes 1 wound from leaving engagement but deals 3 wounds to Godzilla. Godzilla chases Iron Man and uses Atomic Breath on him. 3 skulls = 6 hits vs 5 shield. That could have been bad for Iron Man! Iron Man moves back 1 and shoots Godzilla dealing 3 wounds.

Round 4: Initiative Avengers. First turn on Captain America, but Ironman says, “I have a plan: Attack!” and deals 2 wounds to Godzilla. I actually wanted to attack with Ironman but have the revealed OM on Captain America to get the Avengers Assemble bonus. Godzilla moves up to Ironman and deals 1 wound. Thor flies up to Godzilla and deals 4 wounds to Godzilla. Godzilla has 1 life left. Godzilla stomps Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America and destroys a tree dealing 1 wound to Thor. Godzilla attacks Iron Man 4 skulls to 3 shields which is just enough to destroy him. Thor finishes off Godzilla. Godzilla had 3 Atomic Breath markers.

Round 5: Initiative Godzilla. 2 Thunderers advance along the grass. Captain America moves to the center of the map on the road. 2 Thunderers attack Captain America but he blocks the damage with his Vibranium Alloy Shield. Thor moves in front of Captain America on the road. Mjolnir misses. 2 Thunderers attack Thor but miss. Thor moves up to the whole group of Thunderers and Thunder Strikes them but only destroys 1.

Round 6: Initiative Godzilla. 1 Thunderer grabs height and deals 1 wound to Thor. 1 Thunderer attacks from low ground and deals 2 wounds to Thor. Captain America Shield Throws destroying 2 Thunderers. Another Thunderer grabs height. 1 misses Thor and the other deals 3 wounds. Thor has 1 life left. Thor moves to engage a second Thunderer. Uses Mjolnir. Kills 1 of the 3 remaining Thunderers. 2 Thunderers on height attack Thor and miss. Thor attacks and destroys a Thunderer.

Round 7: Initiative Godzilla. 2 Thunderers move near Thor thinking the X is on him so they attack Captain America dealing 1 wound. For the rest of the round, Captain America and the Thunderer attack each other but can’t pierce the other side’s defenses.

Round 8: Initiative Avengers. Captain America destroys a Thunderer. More back and forth missing until turn 3 when Captain America finishes off the last Thunderer.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Thor {1/8}, Captain America (Steve Rogers, C3G) {4/5}.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Icy Road Battlefield
Units: Godzilla (1000) vs Fantastic Four (Invisible Woman, Thing, Human Torch, Mr. Fantastic) (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Fantastic Four. Mr. Fantastic moves along edge of snow and ice. Godzilla moves along the top of the map. Invisible Woman moves along edge of snow and ice. Mr. Fantastic advances toward Godzilla but just out of Godzilla’s movement range. Godzilla moves toward Mr. Fantastic and destroys a big tree. Human Torch moves up, attacks Godzilla, and misses. Mr. Fantastic attacks Godzilla and misses. Godzilla stomps Mr. Fantastic for 1 wound and destroys a ruin and tree. Godzilla attacks Invisible Woman for 1 wound.

Round 2: Initiative Fantastic. Invisible Woman moves away from Godzilla onto height and attacks him for 2 wounds. Human Torch gains more height, attacks, and misses. Mr. Fantastic circles around Godzilla toward the others and attacks for 1 wound. Godzilla stomps Mr. Fantastic for 1 wound. Godzilla can’t gain height because of the Fantastic Four’s positioning on the hill. Godzilla attacks Invisible Woman and misses. Invisible Woman moves away from Godzilla onto height and attacks Godzilla and misses. Thing moves over the bridge wall. Uses Clobbering Time to deal 6 wounds. Mr. Fantastic moves on height to block Godzilla from reaching Invisible Woman. He attacks Godzilla and misses. Godzilla attacks Mr. Fantastic using King of the Masters even though Mr. Fantastic has Invisible Woman’s shield. Deals 3 wounds and destroys him him. Mr. Fantastic loses a turn. Godzilla stomps Human Torch and Invisible Woman dealing 1 wound to Invisible Woman. He attacks Invisibile Woman for 2 wounds.

Round 3: Initiative Fantastic Four. Thing moves up to equal height. Uses Clobberin’ Time with 10 dice and two attacks, but Godzilla only takes 1 wound! Godzilla attacks Invisible Woman with King of the Monsters and destroys her. Human Torch uses Flame On to deal 2 wounds. Human Torch takes 1 wound from leaving engagement and moves to other height and misses. Godzilla stomps Thing but misses. Godzilla grabs height but Atomic Breath has slightly better odds, so Godzilla uses Atomic Breath and hits Thing for 2 wounds. Thing moves around Godzilla and uses Clobberin’ Godzilla but misses. Godzilla attacks Thing for 3 wounds.

Round 4: Initiative Fantastic Four. Human Torch wounds Godzilla for 1 wound. Godzilla attacks Thing. 6 skulls vs 3 shields. Godzilla destroys him. Human Torch attacks Godzilla but misses. Godzilla moves to Torch. Uses Atomic Breath for 1 wound. Human Torch uses Flame on and misses. He leaves the engagement with Godzilla and goes Supernova but misses! Godzilla stomps Human Torch but misses. Godzilla attacks Human Torch. 5 skulls vs 1 shield which destroys him.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Godzilla 7/20

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:

Spoiler Alert!

On paper, the Thunderers synergize with Godzilla when his class is Destroyer, but in actually play, they do not synergize at all. Their strategies and playstyles clash. Godzilla is a Shark unit that needs to engage enemies and needs all the Order Markers he can get. Thunderers want to perform non-adjacent attacks especially from height whenever possible. It is a conflict of interests trying to keep Godzilla engaged with enemies and keeping the Thunderers adjacent to Godzilla but not engaged with enemies. All the while Godzilla wants to hog the Order Markers to charge Atomic Breath but they want Order Markers to move into position and make ranged attacks. It is not worth using a 1000 point figure to give another figure +1 to ranged attacks. Even when I tried to use the Thunderers more effectively, I still couldn’t even get them into position to take advantage of Godzilla’s synergy.

Godzilla himself felt balanced at 1000 points and did his share of the damage when he was the only one taking turns. Godzilla was way more fun and effective on his own. Atomic Breath felt more useful when all Order Markers were going to Godzilla. Godzilla felt right at 1000 points and worth drafting as a single unit vs. another 1000 point army.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:

Spoiler Alert!

Wake of Destruction is fun destroying obstacles and stomping figures. and it’s helpful for bypassing high defense units and abilities. Wake of Destruction and King of the Monsters are fun, effective, and strategic abilities. All of the abilities had strategic use.

It was tedious waiting for Atomic Breath to charge, and if you wiff on that attack roll, it is really painful, but when it worked, it was good. Only getting to use it once in the game was disappointing. I would like to see it get used at least twice per game consistently. A simple change would be to gain the Atomic Breath marker at the start of your turn rather than the end. Then you can use Atomic Breath on turn 4, 8, 12, etc. rather than 5, 9, 13, etc. This would make it more likely to be used twice in one game. This would also allow Godzilla to take advantage of an initiative switch possibly allowing him to set up better for hitting more figures.

Atomic Breath and King of the Monsters are swingy powers but given Godzilla lasts a long time, they are bound to swing both ways during the course of a game. I also think the swingy style fits Godzilla because his fights in the movies tend to be swingy.

Godzilla has trouble against non-huge enemies that can disengage and have range because they can kite, forcing him to move and lose his King of the Monsters bonus, but he excels against melee heavy-hitters. Godzilla really feels and plays like a destructive force of nature.

I am curious to know how Godzilla performs against Huge-based armies or other Huge Event Heroes. I am also curious to know how Godzilla will perform when teamed up with other Kaiju, such as Anguirus or Mothra (when they get made). Team fights are always a highlight in the movies. It would be nice if 2000 point armies made up of two Kaiju, such as Godzilla and Anguirus vs King Ghidorah and Gigan, would work effectively.

[IAmBatman]

I like that change to his Atomic Breath. He looks good at 1,000 to me with or without that change as I feel his stats and other two powers are the bigger drivers of his points.

[Tornado]

Great test report, thanks!

[quozl]

Thanks Siege! I don't mind moving the marker to before taking a turn.

So it's poll time!

Godzilla's class:
A. Keep it as Protector
B. Change to Destroyer
C. Change to Monster
D. Something else

Atomic Breath:
A. Keep it as after taking a turn, get a marker
B. Change it to before taking a turn, get a marker

And how does he look?
A. Ready to go
B. More testing

[tcglkn]

Class: LD’s choice

SA: before taking a turn

Looks good to me to move forward. Would wanna resolve these choices before voting though.

[MrNobody]

Class: B

SA: B

Testing: A