The Book of Commander Rogers

[TrollBrute]

Karat's right. That would change the mechanics of the power. The auto-shield is always active, it just doesn't count for the counterstrike aspect.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

Karat's right. That would change the mechanics of the power. The auto-shield is always active, it just doesn't count for the counterstrike aspect.

But it also doesn't count when you roll excess shields. So I don't think it does change the result; just the expression of how you get to the result.

What I mean is, the autoshield doesn't matter unless you roll fewer shields than skulls. In other words, whenever you have enough shields for the counterstrike to activate, then the autoshield becomes moot because you don't get to count that shield anyway. As designed, the two benefits were already mutually exclusive. Check my math on this to see if I've made a mistake somewhere:

• Rogers rolls shields < skulls: autoshield is active and makes a difference. Counterstrike does not activate.
  
  
• Rogers rolls shields = skulls: autoshield is technically active but moot: it neither blocks a wound nor triggers counterstrike. (The whole power is moot here.)
  
  
• Rogers rolls shields > skulls: autoshield is again moot; counterstrike takes effect.

Aren't both wordings equivalent, then? You never need to choose both benefits because they are never applicable at the same time. (Or did I miss something?)

The only way I could see a difference would be if Cap could somehow count the autoshield for some other effect while also getting the counterstrike. I suppose there might be some Glyph that could make that happen, but I considered that possibility an edge case that would not impact the function or pricing of this unit.

And, if such a case did arise, I think I would probably argue that this approach is actually preferable. Is there a counterstrike Glyph? I can't remember. But if there were and Rogers had it, would it make sense for him to use his autoshield to activate the counterstrike glyph and get his built-in counterstrike?

Applying design logic and future-proofing considerations, the two benefits appear to be designed to be mutually exclusive. This whole discussion has been about finding the best way to communicate that the auto-shield does not count for the counterstrike, right? So why leave open a crack for these results to potentially overlap each other in some special circumstance?

Please straighten me out if I've missed something important. I'm not trying to change the intent or to be difficult; I'm just trying to be diligent.

[quozl]

Yep, J_a_B is right.

[Viegon]

Huh, I was about to back TB and Karat on this, but J_a_B is right.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yeah, while it seems to change the power on first glance, mechanically the power hasn't changed and is actually clearer.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
After Commander Rogers rolls defense dice, choose one of the following:

• add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled; or
• if you roll any excess shields when defending against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, the attacking figure receives one wound.

FWIW, this actually does change the power; Commander Rogers could choose to not wound, say, Wolverine or the Hulk because he doesn't want to make them mad.

If that's not desireable, then you could do something like:

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure. Otherwise, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

The "otherwise" is kind of annoying, though. If you spell it out it's (IMO) clear but gets a touch wordy:

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice with Commander Rogers, if the attacker rolls more hits than Commander Rogers rolls shields, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled. When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

The clearest, really, is to just spit it up:

PHOTONIC SHIELD DEFLECTION
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice with Commander Rogers, if Photonic Shield Deflection does not trigger, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

[TrollBrute]

Yeah, JaB's math is correct, but as dok points out, making it either/or does change the mechanic slightly. It's also less clear, if you ask me. Making it appear as a choice is counter-intuitive because the player does not actually have a choice of how the power is used.

Honestly, the version parentheses is less elegant, but I find it to be the clearest. dok's suggestion to split it up isn't bad either.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by dok

FWIW, this actually does change the power; Commander Rogers could choose to not wound, say, Wolverine or the Hulk because he doesn't want to make them mad.

Indeed. Good catch, dok.

Originally Posted by dok

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure. Otherwise, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

This has a different mechanical change, though: you would never get the auto shield if it was a normal attack within 5 CSSs, even if you whiffed on shields.

Originally Posted by dok

PHOTONIC SHIELD DEFLECTION
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice with Commander Rogers, if Photonic Shield Deflection does not trigger, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

I agree with TB that the split approach isn't bad. I'm just not enamored with the "if PSD doesn't trigger" bit ... it seems to trade the inelegance of my original "not including the automatic shield" suggestion (which I was trying to get rid of) for a different inelegance. Different wording, but still kind of a patch.

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

Making it appear as a choice is counter-intuitive because the player does not actually have a choice of how the power is used.

Yup, agreed; that's a weakness of my bulleted version. But hold that thought for a few more seconds while I highlight one of dok's ideas ...

Originally Posted by dok

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice with Commander Rogers, if the attacker rolls more hits than Commander Rogers rolls shields, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled. When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

There's something nice about the directness of how you've made the shields < hits relationship an explicit condition. What if that were worked into the double-bullet approach, thus eliminating the choice?

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
After you roll defense dice for Commander Rogers, choose one of the following:

• If you rolled fewer shields than the number of hits the attacker rolled, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.
• Otherwise, if you rolled any excess shields and Commander Rogers is defending against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, the attacking figure receives one wound.

This one feels very straightforward and non-patchy to me. It steals some good stuff from dok's earlier suggestion that also used an "otherwise" (that word was kind of a mini-breakthrough, I think), though in this form it makes sure you always get the auto-shield when you need it.

EDIT: "Hits" instead of "skulls" per dok.

[dok]

I like what you did there. Note that I went for "hits" instead of "skulls" because of things like deadly strike.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by dok

I like what you did there. Note that I went for "hits" instead of "skulls" because of things like deadly strike.

Ooh yes; good call, that. I'll edit mine.

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
After you roll defense dice for Commander Rogers, choose one of the following:

• If you rolled fewer shields than the number of hits the attacker rolled, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.
• Otherwise, if you rolled any excess shields and Commander Rogers is defending against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, the attacking figure receives one wound.

This could work, but I worry a little about space on the card. Do we still have room for this on the card with the other changes made?

[Midgieboy3]

PHOTONIC SHIELD DEFLECTION
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure within 5 clear sight spaces, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD
When rolling defense dice with Commander Rogers, if Photonic Shield Deflection does not trigger, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

I like this idea, also there should be space on the card to make a separate power. Have you guys ever used, like, a / before? PHOTONIC SHIELD DEFLECTION/PHOTONIC ENERGY SHIELD.