C3G Requests for Reevaluation

[Dysole]

As long as we're aware of what the final intended result is, the wording can be hammered out to make it work. Cool. We're all on the same general page.

~Dysole, keeping her ducks in a row

[Ronin]

It should affect that mystery thing, yeah. It's FAQ'd here.

[Yodaking]

on the Strange update. Not sure what effect it would have on the card's cost. That power only ever came into play when he was facing MD figures and I don't think that happened but 1 or 2 times he's been in play in one of my games. He hasn't really been a very popular character to draft in my groups though. Perhaps because for 300 points I can have Wonder Woman lasso anyone and negate their powers, not just MD figures. If the MD negation aspect of the card was what was driving his cost up to 300, and that power is about to be limited, maybe drop his points by 20 or so and see how he tests out?

[quozl]

All of his playtests did not use that power so we have no idea what effect it currently has on his cost.

[Tornado]

EDIT: Nice quozl.

When he was tested there were few MD figures to test against. Without re-reading the tests, my guess is a lot of his value came from OM negation.

If anything I think his value goes up with every MD figure added to the game, even with this nerf.

I am willing to go under the advisement of CRB and see how it goes. If he starts playing over cost in the inevitable [redacting this, I guess?] tests that are upcoming, he may want to consider a full re-eval.

[Yodaking]

Didn't realize he was never tested against other MD figures. Tornado makes a good point that in the years since Strange came out a bunch of new MD figures have come along. Perhaps we should just retest him and assign a new cost based on the updated power along with what impact it has on a wider range of MD figures. A few of us could even include some [redact-amundo] in our tests.

[Lazy Orang]

Bear in mind that, as much as there are a lot more magic users around now, they still do, and always will, make up a comparatively minuscule percentage of the figures in the game, and I'd prefer not to see a semi-iconic character like Doctor Strange priced as a counter-draft. I'd think of it a bit like Iceman - he was priced according to how he works on a normal map, so on an ice map, his natural habitat, he'll overperform a little, and that's fine.
That said, he should be tested with the change.

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Sorcerer Supreme
Immediately after any numbered Order Marker is revealed, you may reveal an 'X' Order Marker on this card. All opponents' figures (Unique Heroes?) that have the Magical Defense special power and are within 3 clear sight spaces of Doctor Strange when you reveal the 'X' Order Marker may not use any special power on their Army Cards until another numbered Order Marker is revealed. Figures with a Wise personality are not affected by Sorcerer Supreme.

This seems fine to me, though I don't know that I'm totally sold on making it an 'X' power. It will hurt him in any team ups with other 'X'-using units, which isn't a big deal, but does change his possible builds along with the power.

Throwing out some other ideas, what about making the power only negate unreleased?

Or sticking closer to the current power:

SORCERER SUPREME
When Doctor Strange attacks a figure with Magical Defense special power with his normal attack, the defending figure cannot use any special powers on its Army Card.

or:

SORCERER SUPREME
When Doctor Strange is attacked by a figure with the Magical Defense special power, the attacking figure cannot use any special powers on its Army Card.

or even combining them:

SORCERER SUPREME
When Doctor Strange is attacked by a figure with the Magical Defense special power, the attacking figure cannot use any special powers on its Army Card. When Doctor Strange attacks a figure with Magical Defense special power with his normal attack, the defending figure cannot use any special powers on its Army Card.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

This seems fine to me, though I don't know that I'm totally sold on making it an 'X' power. It will hurt him in any team ups with other 'X'-using units, which isn't a big deal, but does change his possible builds along with the power.

Throwing out some other ideas, what about making the power only negate unreleased?

Or sticking closer to the current power:

or:

or even combining them:

All those powers (including, IMO, just making it negate unreleased, which also has the impact of making it even more niche) make Magical duels less interesting, and the last one, especially, doesn't really deal with the problem at all - the problem being that Doctor Strange personally dominates other magic users to a degree that is unthematic. It may not affect what they can do around him, but you'll still never have a fun or interesting magical duel with Steve around.

What I like about the X Order Marker idea is that it has to be deployed tactically - he isn't just better, he doesn't just shut people down because he's there, but he does have the power to gain the upper hand. That feels much more thematic to how this kind of thing would play out in a Doctor Strange story - after all, if he were just all around better anyway and didn't have to work and actively gain the upper hand and take advantage of his opportunity, there'd be no narrative tension - as well as being a lot more fun and tactical than a passive power ever will be. Wouldn't that make for a more interesting magic duel than a passive power that just shuts his opponent's options down anyway?

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

All those powers (including, IMO, just making it negate unreleased, which also has the impact of making it even more niche) make Magical duels less interesting, and the last one, especially, doesn't really deal with the problem at all - the problem being that Doctor Strange personally dominates other magic users to a degree that is unthematic.

I agree with this. It also limits design space some. I also would like to avoid redesigning the power completely, if possible, which is why I'm tossing some other ideas out that feel closer to the original design to me.

I actually don't think the last one I suggested is as strong as you think. How many MD figures actually have defensive powers (beyond MD itself) or powers that boost their normal attacks?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

I agree with this. It also limits design space some. I also would like to avoid redesigning the power completely, if possible, which is why I'm tossing some other ideas out that feel closer to the original design to me.

I actually don't think the last one I suggested is as strong as you think. How many MD figures actually have defensive powers (beyond MD itself) or powers that boost their normal attacks?

Looking at it again, not many - which, honestly, is, in and of itself, also a problem. It makes the power's interesting effects even more niche, and means that in most circumstances it basically boils down to 'No, not even you can pierce my Magical Defence'. That, to me, is not interesting gameplay.
Also, I think the X-Marker version is actually very close to the original power - in fact, it pretty much is the original power, except only one turn each round. You may feel it's a bit too much of a change, but I can almost guarantee you it will lead to the most interesting gameplay when Strange ends up in a fight with another Magic user - plus, a number of other people already seem to be in favour of it. I'm honestly not liking any of these suggestions - they just seem to suggest fairly stagnant gameplay to my mind. They feel like they're eliminating strategic options, rather than expanding them.

[TrollBrute]

I disagree with most of your points, but that's fair. We'll see what others say. As I said before, I'm fine with your suggestion if we go with something like that. It's just not my favorite.