The Book of Gizmo

[japes]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Isn't 'attack with whoever' really short hand for 'take a turn with whoever during which they can only attack' in C3G? I thought it was, I hope it is really, attacking out of your turn causes much funkyness. If so, he shouldn't really be giving turns in the middle of his turn like that, turn stacking nightmare there. Seems like it would make more sense to word them as:

Before taking a turn with Gizmo, you may do one of the following blah blah blah,
if you do, you cannot move Gizmo during his turn.

and

After taking a turn with Gizmo, if he did not attack during that turn you may blah blah blah.

That seems a hell of a lot cleaner mechanically to me.



Also it seems like he really needs the 'revealed an order marker on this guy' restrictions here or something, otherwise I'm always going to be using him to effectively turn every Android Hero into Avengers for Miss Marvel and also get Killer Penguin attacks added into her turn. That's more than a little ridonkulous.

Thanks for the comments and Good suggestions on the wording. I was trying to avoid any language that said take a turn with... in hopes of avoiding things like Awesome Andy's "instead of taking a turn..." type powers as I didn't know how they reacted since they are attacks.

I would rather drop the Hero portion of his attack than add the OM reveal. That would completely take away the intent of him within his team. I didn't think any of the android squads were a big enough deal to matter that much and it's pretty much the meat of the design. His own attack is weak and using mechanical constructs to do his attacking is what he does.

Would dropping the Hero portion make you feel more comfortable?
@dok , @webear, @Dysole any other worries.

EDIT:
Also which would be the most annoying, a squad of re-spawning minions with Daring Decoy or with Attack/Defense -1 when engaged. I'm wanting them to just be there to slow down the opponent so that the Fearsome Five and other android manipulators can get rolled out and set up but I don't want them to become cheap shields with universal appeal. May not be possible but I want to try if it is.

[Viegon]

Good points Soundwarp; I agree with switching to the powers triggering before and after his turn instead of during.

Any form of bonding without an OM requirement is iffy; even with the Unique Hero part dropped, giving figures like Ms. Marvel and Robot what is effectively bonding with Android squaddies could be pretty decent, and would really limit future design space for Android squads.

It's clunky, but we could always go with a twist on the Wrecking Crew wording with: "Robotics Mastery can only be used if you revealed an Order Marker on a card with the Fearsome personality at the beginning of your turn".

[japes]

I based the Instead of Moving and Instead of Attacking on Cyclops by the way.

As far as adding the reveal an OM on a FEARSOME figure, I'd be fine with that if it's needed but that goes against Soundwarps general wishes to make figures have a broader use. As far as future proofing...what android squads would possibly be an issue. Anything stronger than a penguin with a machine gun would likely be an uncommon hero. I know there was once a squad of Doombots mentioned once but that's been years and it still hasn't happened.

[japes]

Based on Mysterio...

ROBOTICS MASTERY

before taking a turn with Gizmo, you may move three common androids or place a previously destroyed common android figure on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Gizmo.

If you had two different common squads of Androids would this allow you to move 2 of one squad and one from a different squad? or 1 from a squad and 2 common hero androids?

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by japes

I based the Instead of Moving and Instead of Attacking on Cyclops by the way.

Cyclops was an early design and does run into turn interruption somewhat. It's just best to avoid that territory and stick with more mechanically clean wording.

Originally Posted by japes

As far as future proofing...what android squads would possibly be an issue. Anything stronger than a penguin with a machine gun would likely be an uncommon hero. I know there was once a squad of Doombots mentioned once but that's been years and it still hasn't happened.

Nothing comes to mind immediately, but Android is used to cover a lot, and with "android army" being such a common plot in comics (Doombots, LMDs, Ultrons, etc.), it seems likely that we could end up with a 100+ point Android Squad at some point.

Originally Posted by japes

Based on Mysterio...

ROBOTICS MASTERY

before taking a turn with Gizmo, you may move three common androids or place a previously destroyed common android figure on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Gizmo.

If you had two different common squads of Androids would this allow you to move 2 of one squad and one from a different squad? or 1 from a squad and 2 common hero androids?

That wording would allow you to mix-and-match; so yeah, any combination of squaddies and common heroes.

Spitballing here, but since the main focus of Gizmo's Constructs are to act as a shield for the Fearsome Five, what about putting an OM restriction on Improvised Weaponry but leave it off of Robotics Mastery? That way he can still move and rebuild the Constructs when activated by Psimon, he just can't attack with them (which would hurt his usefulness with any more offensive androids that might come along, but isn't that big a deal with the Constructs since their attack is so weak).

That also limits the concern with figures like Ms. Marvel and Robot; being able to move a shield around when activated by them is still going to be pretty good, but shouldn't be too bad.

So you'd have:

ROBOTICS MASTERY
Before taking a turn with Gizmo, you may either move up to 3 Common Android figures you control or place a previously destroyed Common Android figure you control on an empty space within 4 clear sight spaces of Gizmo.

MECHANICAL IMPROVISATION (?)
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Gizmo, if Gizmo did not attack that turn, you may immediately take a turn with an Android Squad you control, during which those figures may not move.

MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
At the end of a round, you may choose an Android or Cyborg Hero adjacent to Gizmo. Remove or place 1 Wound Marker on the chosen figure’s card.

FLYING

[dok]

Dropping hero definitely makes me more comfortable. Right now the second post version allows Red Tornado to bond with Killer Penguins (or whatever new squad we're adding) while bringing back dead Penguins, and can do all of this when activated by Robot's OM. It's a lot.

[japes]

Originally Posted by dok

Dropping hero definitely makes me more comfortable. Right now the second post version allows Red Tornado to bond with Killer Penguins (or whatever new squad we're adding) while bringing back dead Penguins, and can do all of this when activated by Robot's OM. It's a lot.

But the Penguins are a Unique Squad does that matter with the way it's worded or does a figure in a Unique Squad count as a common figure as well?

[Dysole]

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Competitive Concerns
Does the design offer worrisome Order marker movement or efficiency? No.

Does the design offer superior Auto wounding? No. Mechanical Engineering is so niche and so hard to do that it's tough to break.

Does the design cause the prevention of abilities (Blob, Polaris, Meteorite)? No, but the Decoys could be a GIANT PAIN. Gizmo + rats could prove frustrating.

Does the design move other figures? Yes. Decoys are kind of like rats. Granted this is Superhero Scape, but I could see this being REALLY annoying. Maybe I'm wrong though. Higher stats + lots of disengage + lots of autowounds in the metagame could mitigate their effects.

Does the design boost other figures (outside of a narrowly defined set)? No.

Does the design have one or more excellent defensive powers? No.

Does the design auto destroy or take control of other figures in a way that unbalances the design? No.

Does the design have any other concerns? Not really no.

Summary of Any Competitive Concerns/Suggestions for Changes: Keep an eye on what happens with Gizmo + a bunch of Decoys + someone like Cable or something especially against a bunch of heavy hitters without disengage.

~Dysole, pretty sure this is the first time she's done this

[Viegon]

japes is going to start up a companion squad to go with Gizmo; he has a rough draft in the fourth post of this thread.

[Dysole]

I will update with those abilities and stats in mind. Thank you.

~Dysole, appreciatively

[japes]

Originally Posted by japes

But the Penguins are a Unique Squad does that matter with the way it's worded or does a figure in a Unique Squad count as a common figure as well?

If I can get a clarification here I'll be looking to propose a vote for initial soon.

[quozl]

It does not count as a common figure.