C3G Public Design Nominations - TIEBREAKER

[TrollBrute]

Well it seems like things have cleared themselves up, but I want to make a few things clear:

There is a simple reason why an designer with two designs that are close in points is not allowed to choose which design he or she would like to design: it's not about what the designer wants. It's not about what the Heroes or any single member wants. This voting is for what the people as a whole want. We don't vote on designers, we vote on designs. The design with the most votes will go through the process to become the next C3G card, regardless of whether or not the designer would rather LD a different unit.

If a designer has one particular design in mind that he would like to design, he is fully allowed to veto any nominations of his other designs, as long as it is done before the voting starts. Once voting has begun, designs will not be removed from the vote except in cases of sudden ineligibility. Designers should be aware of this and be careful in choosing which designs they allow to be nominated.

Also, the Heroes will not "veto the winning design because they feel like it". We vote on designs before voting so that any issues with designs can be addressed before voting, and not after. Designs are only vetoed in cases of 1) that unit has already been drafted by a Hero who does not wish to surrender the draft, 2) the unit is not a good fit for C3G, or 3) the unit has too many issues to be addressed before going into the design phase. Any veto also requires a majority vote from the Heroes, it is not something done on a whim.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Maybe going forward we should make it a rule that folks with multiple designs nominated have to choose one to go forward into voting. That gives more different designers a shot and helps avoid situations like this.

Just an idea, though.

I think we're fine as is. As I said above, designers should be aware that having multiple designs in the running may hurt their chances of winning. They are free to veto any nominations of designs they would prefer not to have in the vote.

However, I will be making a change going forward. Beginning with the next round, vote totals will no longer be posted publicly until after voting is complete. This is a change I have been considering for some time, and I think this round shows why it would be a good idea. We want to see votes based on what each member would like to see win, not which design they would most like to see out of the frontrunners.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Maybe going forward we should make it a rule that folks with multiple designs nominated have to choose one to go forward into voting. That gives more different designers a shot and helps avoid situations like this.

Just an idea, though.

Maybe, sure. Or, maybe adding more concrete rules isn't the way to go. Maybe instead we just have that X factor that can leave room for discussion and leeway when it comes to certain situations. We're not robots after all, we have mental and emotional capabilities that can warrant different responses judging by the scenario.

I see no reason, on a fan made project, why certain responses and opinions are denied purely because a rule is in place. This isn't some intricate yet fragile infrastructure where one rare change or alteration could completely ruin everything set in place. As long as everyone puts in effort and helps out where needed, the machine keeps running.

I feel the automatic go to response for some to just say "eh, tough luck, rules are rules, learn from it", is a very robotic uncaring/unappreciative response. A system like C3G, is completely dependent upon people's willingness to sacrifice their personal time and energy into keeping things going. Playtesting, designs, feedback, promotion, and desire to see it grow. If concrete rules are more important than the thoughts and preferences of the people giving up their time to contribute to this, then that's a disconnect. I'm not saying rules should always fall to preference or opinion, but in special unique cases where it may reasonably apply, it makes complete sense to warrant consideration for exceptions. Keeping everyone motivated and happy is ideal, rules are to keep things fair, but they shouldn't hinder one's own enjoyment and motivation to keep contributing to the project, stifling passion is never the answer.

[IAmBatman]

Hey, don't listen to me, I'm just a retired nutjob passing through. It's clear you care about this at least 500% more than I do.

[cwidje]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

Well it seems like things have cleared themselves up, but I want to make a few things clear:

There is a simple reason why an designer with two designs that are close in points is not allowed to choose which design he or she would like to design: it's not about what the designer wants. It's not about what the Heroes or any single member wants. This voting is for what the people as a whole want. We don't vote on designers, we vote on designs. The design with the most votes will go through the process to become the next C3G card, regardless of whether or not the designer would rather LD a different unit.

If a designer has one particular design in mind that he would like to design, he is fully allowed to veto any nominations of his other designs, as long as it is done before the voting starts. Once voting has begun, designs will not be removed from the vote except in cases of sudden ineligibility. Designers should be aware of this and be careful in choosing which designs they allow to be nominated.

Also, the Heroes will not "veto the winning design because they feel like it". We vote on designs before voting so that any issues with designs can be addressed before voting, and not after. Designs are only vetoed in cases of 1) that unit has already been drafted by a Hero who does not wish to surrender the draft, 2) the unit is not a good fit for C3G, or 3) the unit has too many issues to be addressed before going into the design phase. Any veto also requires a majority vote from the Heroes, it is not something done on a whim.

I think we're fine as is. As I said above, designers should be aware that having multiple designs in the running may hurt their chances of winning. They are free to veto any nominations of designs they would prefer not to have in the vote.

However, I will be making a change going forward. Beginning with the next round, vote totals will no longer be posted publicly until after voting is complete. This is a change I have been considering for some time, and I think this round shows why it would be a good idea. We want to see votes based on what each member would like to see win, not which design they would most like to see out of the frontrunners.

[MegaSilver]

Does that mean that the Jungle Terrain has a chance?

[Yodaking]

I like that change. Maybe even send the vote to you via PM.

[Lazy Orang]

Maybe just a rule that, if it's an absolute tie point-to-point between two designer's units, which it was before Megasilver's vote to 'break the tie', the designer gets to pick between them? The rules for tie-breaking are wierd anyway.

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

However, I will be making a change going forward. Beginning with the next round, vote totals will no longer be posted publicly until after voting is complete. This is a change I have been considering for some time, and I think this round shows why it would be a good idea. We want to see votes based on what each member would like to see win, not which design they would most like to see out of the frontrunners.

Eh, I don't like that. It takes away the fun and excitement of watching the vote if you just wait until it's all sorted - I love watching how it's going, cheering if one of my favourites takes the lead and cursing when something pulls ahead of it. I know it's silly, but that's one of the things that makes this so much fun. Yodaking's suggestion hurts that even more.

[Xael Raymand]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

However, I will be making a change going forward. Beginning with the next round, vote totals will no longer be posted publicly until after voting is complete. This is a change I have been considering for some time, and I think this round shows why it would be a good idea. We want to see votes based on what each member would like to see win, not which design they would most like to see out of the frontrunners.

Makes sense, I like it

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Maybe just a rule that, if it's an absolute tie point-to-point between two designer's units, which it was before Megasilver's vote to 'break the tie', the designer gets to pick between them? The rules for tie-breaking are wierd anyway.

If the same situation occurs again, this alternative will be strongly considered. However, I will not allow a second place design to be chosen over a first place design, regardless of the LD's preference. It's about what the people want, not the LD. There's certainly room for flexibility in very close ties however.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Eh, I don't like that. It takes away the fun and excitement of watching the vote if you just wait until it's all sorted - I love watching how it's going, cheering if one of my favourites takes the lead and cursing when something pulls ahead of it. I know it's silly, but that's one of the things that makes this so much fun. Yodaking's suggestion hurts that even more.

I'm sorry you feel that way, and I know it may take some of the excitement out, but we are at least going to try a round or two with this change. Unfortunately, most rounds turn into races between the frontrunners very quickly. I want to encourage everyone to vote for the design they want to see most, regardless of the points.

[Karat]

I like this change. It helps to keep skew out of this

[Arkham]

That change should help keep things fair and streamlined. I dig it.

And for what it's worth, to set things straight if I haven't already. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone, or came off selfish or ungrateful by my preference/desire to make Malekith instead of Barry if given the option. If I did, I did not mean to offend anyone who hasn't gotten the opportunity to design yet, or someone still trying to get a certain design through, I don't mean to seem ungrateful or selfish. I appreciate the opportunity, regardless of the outcome. I shouldn't have said anything. And I shouldn't have questioned the logistics or necessity of the rules set in place, they are there for a reason. So I hope I'm not perceived as selfish or ungrateful due to my actions/statements.

With that said, I don't mean to try and draw attention to myself or cause any more drama than warranted.

[TrollBrute]

Malekith is officially our winner here. Once Beta Ray has been voted on for release, you will be good to start his thread, Sock.