My first map - Hot Potato 22/12/12

[bacchus]

Hi,

I've decided to try my hand at map making, and I wanted a bit of feedback as I'm a bit unsure about some of the placements or whether it will flow. The map is untested; I wanted some feedback before I tried to build it.




The format I'm intending is probably relevant, which is Capture The Flag. I know there are various version out there, but the basics of what I want to run are;
- Capture the Flag, and then transport it back to your own flag.
- Dropped flags remain where they are.
- Flags can be carried back to base.
- Respawning units (have a few ideas on how to implement but nothing set in stone)

Some of the features of the map which I'd appreciate some feedback on;
- The wellsprings which are basically teleports, and the flags are allowed to be teleported through. I get the feeling that they might need to be a hex closer to the bases to make them more useful/threatening.
- Two Glyph of Astrid in the icy outcrops. I'm aware glyphs are often on low levels or hard to defend places, so I'm a bit unsure of these.
- Two Glyphs of Valda in the centre, between the trees. If someone can hold both of these, that could get pretty scary for the opposition team with a great flag run.
- I think there are some dead spaces that won't see a lot of use, particularly around the edges. I assume that adding an extra tile here and there for some height could make them small perches. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
- I haven't used them in the pic because I didn't notice it in VS, but I'm considering putting the bridge walls on the outside of the first piece of road, so it sits on the edge of the road next to the icy outcrop for stronger pathing choices. Is that wise?

I've still got a few tiles to go. If it helps with providing advice, I have the following;
2 RotV
1 SotM
1 Road to The Forgotten Forest
1 Thaelenk Tundra
1 Volcarren Warren
1 Fortress of the Archkyrie (I've only used a few ladders here so far)

For respawning, I'm thinking about having a 'holding area' that extends off the main base. So when units die, you have to spend order markers moving them back into the fray. I suspect this would best be placed coming off the tile that is bottom right of the picture, and the same for the opposing base.

I also don't have a name for it, and I'm happy to take suggestions.

Once again, any feedback is appreciated!

[Shedim Kabal]

General thoughts here, not gospel:

• The raised Flag Dias will encourage camping by the defenders, giving them height against approaching opponents.
  Gladitrons are very strong in Capture the Flag, both because they provide an answer to Cyprien and because they can passively defend the Flag without Order Markers. (This is one of the many reasons Treasure Hunt scenarios are more common than Capture the Flag.)
• Flyers are very strong on this map, since they can most afford to take advantage of the scant cover, easy access to the teleporter, over the ruins and the general "without being engaged" bit. Consider switching Astrid for Rannveig (Glyph of Winds). (Astrid is one of the most powerful glyphs, and control of it can swing games violently.)
• There's not a lot of cover in the killing field. Switching the Ruins for the unused Glaciers and then putting the Ruins around the field should make it more attractive to leave the open Road.
• The Molten Lava is hard on foot melee, while good for flyers. Even if it was switched for water, it would work as a barrier.
• The Lava Field is mostly wasted, making the already low-lying, undesirable terrain all but useless. Raise it up or switch it for Swamp and Swamp Water. You could even switch the Flag Dias for Lava Field, which should make for some interesting play (though Fire Elementals exist).

On Reinforcements: If, after each opponent's figure is destroyed, we pay the player an amount of "money" equal to the point cost of the destroyed figure (Army Card Points / Number of Figures in Sqaud), we could "charge" them a number of points equal to the resurrected figure. So I'd have to kill 150 points of figures to bring Cyprien back. I think Full Card resurrection might be good, so you can't just keep everything at full strength. You could also give players a handicap of so many points if they need it.

Sir Hawthorne's Switchback? Sort of a ironic name, since the road doesn't really switchback... and neither does Sir Hawthorne.

[Robber]

Originally Posted by Shedim Kabal

Sir Hawthorne's Switchback? Sort of a ironic name, since the road doesn't really switchback... and neither does Sir Hawthorne.

Off topic, I played a game where Sir Hawthorne betrayed people 3 times. The game was won when he deferred over to the other side while he was the only figure left that the player had.

I feel just about the same way as Shedim on the map. Keep in mind that you only get 1 attack bonus whether you're 1 or 5 spaces above another figure. In general maps are more interesting to play on when they have more spread out height with lots of opportunities to get height advantage.

[bacchus]

Thanks for your feedback.

I thought that planning the map in Virtualscape would be easier, but in hindsight it might be easier to try and build it so I can figure our better how each of the tiles relate and I can move features more easily.

Some of the ideas you've mentioned I will probably look at a bit more;
Taking out the height from the start zones, and replacing the flag area with 7-hex lava. Quite like that idea.

If I used Ranvveig in one of the glacier areas, should it be balanced with another, or perhaps with Initiatve+8? This does seem better than putting Astrid on height. If I want to keep Astrid, I could add some Water tiles to the edge of the map so it is on low elevation.

Not real sure about what to do with the lava. Might instead of the straight Molten Lava, I can mix these up a bit so foot units can navigate them, mitigating the bonus flyers would get.

Move the ruins to the middle, or at least 2 of them.

Because the road offers movement bonus, should it be a lower elevation and the tiles around it higher so it creates more choice?

Thanks for your feedback. I'll try and implement some of these changes tonight.

[Typhon2222]

Welcome to the joys of 'Scape cartography bacchus.

You've already gotten some great feedback — nothing I can add. Just wanted to confirm something you asked about...

Originally Posted by bacchus

Because the road offers movement bonus, should it be a lower elevation and the tiles around it higher so it creates more choice?

That's generally held to be a good way of operating with road. Lots of maps implement that principle.

[Shedim Kabal]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

That's generally held to be a good way of operating with road. Lots of maps implement that principle.

Total Theoryscape here, but in a Capture the Flag scenario, the elevated Road might force defenders to engage runners to stop them, which adds a nice tactical edge. It also makes the Road a little more attractive, since you're otherwise running in the open.

Also: If you don't limit Flag carrying to Heroes, then it should definitely be limited to Medium and larger, IMO.

[bacchus]

Thanks Typhon.

That is what I've started to do, put the road on the 1st level. I'm still working on it, and I've spread the lava around a bit, but I think it needs more work.

As a general rule, is it easier to 'bound' the map first and then build features on top of it, or build basic features and then work outwards as necessary? As you can see above the map is a little rough around the edges. i can fill the spaces with some smaller hex pieces but then those areas need to have a purpose.

I chucked a few molten lava tiles around the edge of the teleporters, and I think an extra one would be useful to prevent units at the top from being able to drop down quickly and provide support to the middle of the map. Also think this area should be blocked from flyers due to an aura that surrounds it, otherwise 6 move flyers can get there in one move

And I think the map name could be 'Hot Potato' which fits the scenario.

Hopefully I will do an update and get a pic up tonight.

[bacchus]

Finally got the map into a playable state. I'm still a bit iffy about LOS placement, and whether the starting zones are a bit too open. I'm most concerned about the trees.

Also not sure if I still need to add a little bit of height to certain areas of the map.

Any further feedback appreciated.