Double-space squeeze, base-on-space, and hex-wide valleys

[rickkunkel]

Hello all,

A few questions... I think these all popped up with double-space figures...

1. The rulebook says to remember to "keep the base on the space", yet I can't figure out exactly what defines the "space". Is it the entire hex, or the circular bit with the terrain color?

2. I have a flat piece of terrain, except there are two "pillars" of 1 hex tiles arbitrarily high with a 1 hex space between them. Some double-space figures cannot legally end their move on the space between the tiles (since various protrusions of the figurine keep the figure from adhering to the "base-on-space" rule). Can one of these double-space figures move through the 1 hex space between pillars if their move ends them in a legal position? In other words, does a figure have to have to be able to fit in every space along their path, or just on the ending space?

3. I've seen this one asked, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. I have a flat terrain, except for a 1 hex deep "valley" running down the center. There is no water in this valley, just terrain tiles. If a double-space figure crosses this valley, do they count 1 move for the move from one side down to the level of the valley, then 1 move up the side of the other wall, and then continue normally at 1 move per hex? Or can they cross this valley in 1 move, similar to the way that they cross water tiles?

4. Same situation as above, except there are water tiles at the bottom of this 1 hex deep valley. And like above, the water is considered 1 level deeper than the surrounding terrain, even though the water tiles obviously have a little bit of real-life height. Considering this setup, is the answer to this question the same as #3 above?

Thanks!

Rick Kunkel

[Draconious]

I usually go by the raised hex piece, if it hangs more than the thickness of the plastic off, it dont fit...

Never count spaces when moving/falling down. Always count the layers as spaces when moving up, even when moving out of water.

[Aranas]

Originally Posted by rickkunkel

Hello all,

A few questions... I think these all popped up with double-space figures...

1. The rulebook says to remember to "keep the base on the space", yet I can't figure out exactly what defines the "space". Is it the entire hex, or the circular bit with the terrain color?

Welcome to the forum Rick Kunkel!
I will try to answer all of your questions.
You have to keep your figures "inside" the elevated part of the hex with the terrain color.

Originally Posted by rickkunkel

2. I have a flat piece of terrain, except there are two "pillars" of 1 hex tiles arbitrarily high with a 1 hex space between them. Some double-space figures cannot legally end their move on the space between the tiles (since various protrusions of the figurine keep the figure from adhering to the "base-on-space" rule). Can one of these double-space figures move through the 1 hex space between pillars if their move ends them in a legal position? In other words, does a figure have to have to be able to fit in every space along their path, or just on the ending space?

In the situation described, some double-spaced figures would not be able to either pass through nor end its move between the two pillars. That's for the official rule.

At home, we usually do not tolerate a figure to end its move not completely flat on the hex BUT would let the figure go through the hex...

Originally Posted by rickkunkel

3. I've seen this one asked, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. I have a flat terrain, except for a 1 hex deep "valley" running down the center. There is no water in this valley, just terrain tiles. If a double-space figure crosses this valley, do they count 1 move for the move from one side down to the level of the valley, then 1 move up the side of the other wall, and then continue normally at 1 move per hex? Or can they cross this valley in 1 move, similar to the way that they cross water tiles?

Going down: Double-spaced or not, its only one move point to go down any number of hex levels.
Going up: Again, double-spaced or not, you MUST count the side of the hexes + the top of the hex and then resume your move.
So, in your example, it would be one point down, one hex-side up, one for the top (and at least one more move because you are dealing with a doubled spaced figure that can't end its move between two different levels of terrain.)

Originally Posted by rickkunkel

4. Same situation as above, except there are water tiles at the bottom of this 1 hex deep valley. And like above, the water is considered 1 level deeper than the surrounding terrain, even though the water tiles obviously have a little bit of real-life height. Considering this setup, is the answer to this question the same as #3 above?

For a doubled-spaced figure, it would be the exact same thing I have described above because they are not required to stop their movement when going through a one-hex wide river (but do have to count the levels up if applicable).


Aranas

[Fatespuppet]

We ran into this rule tonight and were a bit confused. In the trench example with no water, if the two base figure couldn't fit into that one hex wide trench, can he legally move through it? For example, my 2 base figure can't move down the trench since he doesn't fit. Can he still move across the trench, in essence jumping it so long as he counts the spaces correctly?

[sashiel]

Not to hijack, but I was pondering some more complicated examples with regards to moving double spaced figures over trenches (with water or otherwise.) I think I understand how this works after reading Aranas's post, but I'll double check anyways.

Lets say you have a double spaced figures moving over terrain that looks from the side like this: (Ignore dots, they're being used to space things correctly.)

__...__
__...__
__...__
______

Would it take a total of 6 movement to travel from one side to the other?

How about:
.......___
__...___
__...___
_______

Also 6?

And:

__
__...___
__...___
_______

5 movement from one side to the other?

And it's the same whether or not there's water at the bottom of the valleys, correct?

[Revdyer]

6, 6, and 5.

[Kahrma]

Originally Posted by Fatespuppet

We ran into this rule tonight and were a bit confused. In the trench example with no water, if the two base figure couldn't fit into that one hex wide trench, can he legally move through it? For example, my 2 base figure can't move down the trench since he doesn't fit. Can he still move across the trench, in essence jumping it so long as he counts the spaces correctly?

There is a difference between a figure being able to physically fit in a space, and a figure being able to legally end its move in a space.

If a figure (such as Krug or Nilfheim) cannot fit in a space due to closely spaced columns, trees, ruins, etc. it cannot end its turn there, nor move through such space. Keep in mind that flying figures such as Nilfheim or Mimring can bypass such obstructions by flying.

Double space figures cannot end their move with their base on different levels - but they can move through such spaces. Otherwise, double-space figures would never be able to climb OR cross trenches.

Hope this clears things up!

[Fatespuppet]

Ah, so if an obstacle is causing the space to be too tight, then the figure can't move through, but if it's simply a terrain feature they can move through normally. That's what we went with, but I wanted to make sure.

[Aranas]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

6, 6, and 5.

As stated by Revdyer, you were correct in all your examples Sashiel.

Originally Posted by sashiel

...And it's the same whether or not there's water at the bottom of the valleys, correct?

Yes, but only for double-spaced figures. Single-spaced would have to stop their move on the water hex.


Aranas

[sashiel]

As long as we're talking about double-space figures and water, one other question comes to mind.

In a situation where a land hex and water hex that are next to each other are of equal height (since water doesn't add any height,) can a double spaced figure end its turn half in water? My instincts say no, but I don't have a rulebook handy, and I don't recall this exact situation being addressed.

[NecroBlade]

Yes it can. There's a thread around somewhere about it.

[Junge Roman]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that doublespace figures have to count elevations when moving over a 1 hex trench. The original intent of the rules surely must have been that the double space figure spans the trench or water. I have not seen the official ruling on this, if it exists. I'm slightly curious if there is one, but in any case, it won't affect how I play it. If the ruling says they have to count elevations, it is one that they just got wrong.