The C3G Cave - Hangout

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Trust me, I know. But I'm the same way, so it's all good.
Parting shot: If we have to ideally cost a C3G unit for either Valhalla or C3G ... wouldn't it make more sense to ideally cost it for C3G?

NO IT WOULDN'T THAT'S A DUMB INSANE IDEA

...Er.... Maybe...

[IAmBatman]

[Hidicul]

LP, if one of the main creators of Scape says that Marvel and Classic weren't meant to be combined, and we base our stuff off Marvel, why should we worry about Classic? I used to agree with you about mixing them, but as we have gotten more units, I tend to mix less and less, and in fact just ran my first playtest without any classic, my poor Stingers are feeling betrayed right now. The two branches just don't mix that well, and I really don't see why we should concern ourselves with how our units interact in classic. I could honestly see a good argument for removing the classic synergy lists from our Books of, but at the same time I think it's a nice thing to have there for those who do mix. Sorry, I'm just tired of this old argument that never goes anywhere, those who belive they shouldn't be mixed will probably never change thier minds, and those in favor of mixing hardly ever change sides.

[IAmBatman]

As a former pro-mixer myself, I'd like to think we're winning more converts than the pro-mixers are.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

That's my point. Since C3G is "ramped up," then by nature that which is balanced in Valhalla would be fine in C3G.

If the Kree are really powerful with Marcus, why not raise their cost? In C3G a slight point raise won't matter a whole lot, since costs are in a 400 point range (Excluding Anti-Moniter, who just ruins this point. ). It'd be then fine with both Valhalla and C3G. And Green Lantern can just fly over the Kree and shoot Marcus anyway, which screws everything up.

But squads don't cost 400 points. So if you bump Kree to 100 to balance in Valhalla but they were fine at 90 vs. C3G units, then they would be overpriced for C3G. Squads are used in multiples, so 3 times that 10 point difference is 30 points more that same squad of Kree is going to cost you in a game of C3G only units. That 30 points is going to cost you somewhere else, so instead of getting Green Goblin at 230 points, you can get Batman (Bruce) at 200. Or, you might just say forget the Kree altogether, instead of spending 300 points on 3 squads of them, I'll spend 255 on 3 squads of Hand Ninja and use the extra 45 points toward Bullseye or Elektra. And as more and more squad units come out for C3G that wouldn't be priced based on synergies with Valhalla, the more likely that the Kree will be overlooked and sit in people's storage bins because there will be better options out there. Now for people that mix, it won't matter because they will get an extra squad unit to use and that have to be drafted with Marcus or they wouldn't be worth their points even in mixing games. So basically we at C3G designed a niche unit that will only be maximized for their cost when used in mixing and when drafted with Marcus. That's not really what we're trying to accomplish here though.

Here's an idea though. Instead of C3G catering to players that like to mix, why don't those players create a thread with cost conversions for certain units that they feel would be overpowered when mixing. That way if we release the Kree at 90 points when balanced for C3G units, you guys can have a conversion for them in that thread to say maybe 100 points. Or people that mix can house rule against using units that they feel are over powered or under priced for mixing games. I think the onus to make those adjustments should be on the people concerned with mixing, rather than to be put on the group that is designing them for the purpose of being used exclusively with C3G units/marvel.

The only reason we ever playtested with classic units to begin with was because we didn't have enough Marvel variety to use, and certainly no squads. The intention however was to gradually steer away from testing with classic units as we got more and more C3G units to test with. Now that we have been releasing some squads, that's even more independent we've become of the classic dependence, and that was the intention.

[Lord Pyre]

I just got over it, and we have to continue?! UGH!!!

I don't mix very often, but I have a blast whenever I do, so I think that it should be supported. Granted, I usually do Vigilantes or Criminals against classic, whose points are very similar, which make for great games (Why do you think all of my designs are generally really low costed? I like to design what I, myself, find most fun to play!).

So yeah, let's just go discuss something else before I get all stubborn again.

[quozl]

Listen to the heroes. They make sense.

P.S. Bats, you'll need to remove me from your sig. I don't agree with that anymore.

[Hidicul]

Well I'll defently miss using my Stingers in my playtests, but I hoping the Kree can step into the gap the loss of the Stingers leave, in my mind anyways. The hand made a pretty good testing squad tonight though.

[johnny139]

I think that the meaty, classic, pre-D&D Uniques mix perfectly with C3G, barring insta-kills. I mean, Swarm of the Marro's Sgt. Drake makes for a pretty awesome unit in C3G, I've learned; he's pretty much Spider-Man with a meatier normal attack, honestly. The Ninjas are tons of fun in general. Sir Denrick makes for a pretty good Sentinel slayer if you can sneak him in.

It's the squads that really kill things. Squads are unbalancing, PERIOD, in C3G or Valhalla. Three squads of 4th are better than Jotun without a doubt. And as D&D comes along, things sort of shift to combat that. By then heroes are swarm-centric and anti-squad. Like the Fen Hydra - in my Electro Playtest, he was WAY better than the average hero. Therein lies the problem.

So when you mix, you have to mix responsibly. If you're opponent has a lot of big-name heroes, don't be a jerk and grab Deadeye Dan. An army with eight squads of Stingers isn't fun for anyone. Are you really going to make an army with Wolverine, Deadpool, and twelve pairs of Death Knights?

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I think that the meaty, classic, pre-D&D Uniques mix perfectly with C3G, barring insta-kills. I mean, Swarm of the Marro's Sgt. Drake makes for a pretty awesome unit in C3G, I've learned; he's pretty much Spider-Man with a meatier normal attack, honestly. The Ninjas are tons of fun in general. Sir Denrick makes for a pretty good Sentinel slayer if you can sneak him in.

It's the squads that really kill things. Squads are unbalancing, PERIOD, in C3G or Valhalla. Three squads of 4th are better than Jotun without a doubt. And as D&D comes along, things sort of shift to combat that. By then heroes are swarm-centric and anti-squad. Like the Fen Hydra - in my Electro Playtest, he was WAY better than the average hero. Therein lies the problem.

So when you mix, you have to mix responsibly. If you're opponent has a lot of big-name heroes, don't be a jerk and grab Deadeye Dan. An army with eight squads of Stingers isn't fun for anyone. Are you really going to make an army with Wolverine, Deadpool, and twelve pairs of Death Knights?

I really want that Bucky with a Soldier Sidekick power to go with Drake, since I actually do use him in SuperScape a lot. He practically is a superhero, anyway...

[Hidicul]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I think that the meaty, classic, pre-D&D Uniques mix perfectly with C3G, barring insta-kills. I mean, Swarm of the Marro's Sgt. Drake makes for a pretty awesome unit in C3G, I've learned; he's pretty much Spider-Man with a meatier normal attack, honestly. The Ninjas are tons of fun in general. Sir Denrick makes for a pretty good Sentinel slayer if you can sneak him in.

It's the squads that really kill things. Squads are unbalancing, PERIOD, in C3G or Valhalla. Three squads of 4th are better than Jotun without a doubt. And as D&D comes along, things sort of shift to combat that. By then heroes are swarm-centric and anti-squad. Like the Fen Hydra - in my Electro Playtest, he was WAY better than the average hero. Therein lies the problem.

So when you mix, you have to mix responsibly. If you're opponent has a lot of big-name heroes, don't be a jerk and grab Deadeye Dan. An army with eight squads of Stingers isn't fun for anyone. Are you really going to make an army with Wolverine, Deadpool, and twelve pairs of Death Knights?

Hey I have fun running 8 squads of Stingers

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by johnny139

when you mix, please mix responsibly.

Protect your loved ones.