The Book of Jackal

[Karat]

True. Ooh, maybe instead of Punisher go Daredevil who has quite a bit of offensive potential and quite a bit of staying power. Then at 1200 yeah, I'd add Sage for that D-20 boost.

[Karat]

Actually I think I might have found a better army for more OM management. 4xBeat Cops, Jackal, Invisible Woman, Scientist Supreme, and Nomad @1000 and then add in Sage for the D-20 boost @1200

[IAmBatman]

Not really sure what Scientist Supreme is adding to that army that makes that build worthwhile over a Punisher/Oracle combo.

[Karat]

Hmm. I was thinking for easy clone activations, but looking at it a second time it does seem less competitive actually.

[TrollBrute]

His best combos are going to be with A) Human/Mutates who can do a lot of damage quickly or B) Humans/Mutates who heal and/or have a high Life number. Billy Batson and Black Tarantula come to mind as nasty combos.

[Karat]

I assume you mean Captain Marvel (Billy)

[Karat]

We have Ronin's results. Punisher did fall really fast from Degeneration in that first match, but that is bound to happen from time to time when rolling 2 unblockable attack dice against him up to 4 times a round.

Originally Posted by Ronin

I played both games at 1000 points. He did okay in the first, but he was teamed up with Punisher, which can make a lot of units look good. The second game was less than overwhelming.

I think his odds of hitting his Cloning rolls are just too low to usually make up his points in that small a game. A lot of 1000 point games are only going to be a few rounds long. And he won't have any previously destroyed fodder to draw from for the first round or two. In my games, he managed to Clone once in the first game and not at all in the second.

I'd like to see how he does in a big ~2000-2500 build that combines the two builds I used; stacked up defensive units and the AIM synergies. If he's balanced at that level, then I think that's fine for the design. I'd rather see him a little weak in small matches and balanced for big Clone Saga insanity than the other way around. Experimental Cloning's a lot of fun as-is, even if it's unreliable for small potatoes matches.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Jackal

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass, providing he holds up in high-point tests

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass, tentatively. Underwhelming in small matches, but I suspect he's better off the bigger you go.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass. Drug-Tipped Claws didn't come up at all, but Jackal's not exactly a front-line fighter. I'm sure it'll come in handy from time to time, when he's backed into a corner.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 200-235
- Give a brief overview. The Dynamic Duo of Punisher and Robin works wonders for Team Jackal. Jackal's Punisher Clone helps out by taking down Spider-Man. Unfortunately, Iron Man is left alive, and he tears through the remaining members of Team Jackal, who can't penetrate his defense.
Map: Green Lantern (Mogo)
Units: Jackal, Invisible Woman, Beat Cops x4, Punisher, Robin (Dick), Skrull Infiltrator (1000) vs Luke Cage, Spider-Man, Dagger, Iron Man, Blink, Jubilee (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Blink and Jubilee mobilize, followed closely by Luke Cage and Spider-Man. Meanwhile, from Team Jackal, Punisher and Robin move to the height off-center of the map so Punisher can start his reign of terror.

Punisher does what he does best, taking down Luke Cage and Jubilee without much of a problem. What follows is a long and dodgy fight. Punisher could have done more damage, but Blink threw him across the map. Spidey finally manages to finish Punisher, taking 3W in the process.

The round ends and Jackal immediately hits his roll for Experimental Cloning. The Punisher II, in grand style, re-enters the fray and kills Spider-Man with a Rocket Launcher before dying from Cellular Degeneration at the end of the round.

Subsequently, Robin puts 3 wounds on Blink before Iron Man finally hits him and takes him out of the game. Iron Man then crosses the battlefield and takes the fight to the Beat Cops. He has strong attack rolls and manages to tear through the Beat Cops, Invisible Woman, and the Jackal while only taking one wound (the Beat Cops do most of the attacking and can't quite get through Iron Man's defense). Iron Man heals after using Uni-Beam.

Unit Summary:

Normal Attack: 0W to Iron Man IV (2 Attacks)
2W from Iron Man (2 Repulsor)
Experimental Cloning: 1 for 6

Brought back Punisher
Punisher used extra life to destroy Spider-Man
This seems really awesome until you remember that the 235 points spent on Jackal could have also gone to a unit like Venom, who could have destroyed Spidey without dying of Cellular Degeneration

Cellular Degeneration: 4 wounds to Punisher over 2 turns, 1 Round (Destroyed Punisher)
Drug-Tipped Claws: Never used


Who won and how many wounds did they have? Iron Man with 0W (Negated), Dagger with 0W (Never activated), Blink with 3W

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Maybe?
- What should be the unit's point value? 200?
- Give a brief overview. Jackal misses all his Cloning rolls as AIM gets worked over by a Captain America/Star-Lord team-up.
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units: Jackal, Scientist Supreme, AIM Agents x2, Judge Dredd, Red Skull (995) vs Captain America, Star-Lord, Mystique, Rocket Raccoon, Wasp I, Creeper (1005)

Spoiler Alert!

Cap distributes his Avengers markers to the other 5 Heroes on his team.

The Scientist Supreme acts as an OM hub for Team AIM/Jackal for almost the whole match. Red Skull and Dredd (Red Skull using the Cosmic Cube to drag Dredd along) serve as the initial attack force, crossing the map and striking while the Guardians/Avengers are still mobilizing. They get a rough welcome from Supporting Fire and Engagement Strike (Red Skull loses the Cube in short order and never manages to get it back), but do manage to destroy Creeper and put a couple wounds on Cap and Mystique before being destroyed themselves.

The Avenging Guardians manage to cross the stage and meet the AIM Agents in the hilly area in front of the AIM start zone. The AIM Agents put up a little fight, but are brought down without much trouble by various ranged and multi-attackers.

The Scientist Supreme, equipped with the Cosmic Control Rod, runs out to bring the fight to Cap, stalling for another Cloning roll for Jackal. Her sacrifice proves to be in vain, but she does wound Cap before being obliterated (all these amped-up 7-range attackers are nuts).

Jackal runs out to fight, attacking Mystique because even he's not crazy enough to try to take down a Star-Lord boosted Cap with height advantage. He's pounded into the dirt in pretty short order anyhow.

Unit Summary:

Normal Attack: 0W to Mystique (2 attacks)
1W from Engagement Strike, 3W from Mystique
Experimental Cloning: Never used
Cellular Degeneration:XX
Drug-Tipped Claws: Never used

Since Jackal relies on d20 rolls (rather high ones), he's going to have games like this from time to time, but it's hard to glean a whole lot about balance from them.

I think the other team was just way stronger (or at least, far better suited to this match-up), and swapping Jackal out for someone else would have still resulted in a big Team 2 victory. Jackal certainly didn't help matters, though.

Who won and how many wounds did they have? Cap with 4W, Mystique with 3W, Rocket, Star-Lord and Wasp all unwounded

[Dysole]

I didn't see an editing anywhere in the thread so I don't know if it's fine to that phase yet but why is Cloning Degradation not "For the rest of the game...". It feels cleaner to me and had precedent over " Do this even while Jackal is dead ". As is, interesting design and I can't see anything broken yet. I'll have to give a look see at the mutate list. Cloned Red Skull Durant get the cosmic cube right? That'd be a mixed blessing either way.

~Dysole, feeling you might be able to drop cloning to 17+ and be fine but he needs to make sure on the mutate thing first

[Karat]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I didn't see an editing anywhere in the thread so I don't know if it's fine to that phase yet but why is Cloning Degradation not "For the rest of the game...". It feels cleaner to me and had precedent over " Do this even while Jackal is dead ". As is, interesting design and I can't see anything broken yet. I'll have to give a look see at the mutate list. Cloned Red Skull Durant get the cosmic cube right? That'd be a mixed blessing either way.

~Dysole, feeling you might be able to drop cloning to 17+ and be fine but he needs to make sure on the mutate thing first

Just didn'tr think of that wording, I like it

It's not just Mutates you have to watch for with his cloning roll, it's also Humans and Clones too, but yeah, after Ronin's test I'm wondering if 17 might not be a better number for Experimental Cloning.

[Dysole]

I already did a solid look at humans and clones and didn't see anything game breaking but hadn't checked mutates yet (worth noting that mutates and metahumans are currently not in the Synergy Archive although I think that's more @Viegon territory). I'll keep you posted if I find anything.

~Dysole, glad to help

[johnny139]

We could always dial the attack die roll back down to one.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by johnny139

We could always dial the attack die roll back down to one.

I thought of that one too. I think that might be the first step. Then, if it still seems that his Cloning roll is too high we could lower it to 17.