HoME Brainstorming Thread

[Son of Arathorn]

The problem with WK's version of Narya is that, when you mix Gandalf with the 4th Massachusetts Line, he becomes way overpowered. Making Raelin, Marcus Decimus Gallus, and Nilfhiem Valiant? That's overpowered.

Having Glamdring work against all figures that follow Utgar or Valkrill saves us some work, but it brings up some annoyances. Would the elven blade, made for wars against Goblins and Orcs, have an empowered affect on figures like Isamu, Sir Hawthorne, Mimring, even the Esenweins? From what I can divine of the text and descriptions of the weapon, it is feared specifically by Orcs and Goblins, and we might as well lump Uruks into that category. Sure, undead, humans, and dragons can be evil, but do they fit into the categories that are known to fear Glamdring?

I suppose what I'm driving at here is, making it Orcs and Goblins preserves the theme, but making it Utgar and Valkrill will make the power much more competitive.

[infectedsloth]

Catching up with the discussion after being gone all weekend. I'm glad we're stating with Gandalf.

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

GLAMDRING
When Gandalf attacks an Orc or Goblin figure, you may add 1 automatic attack to whatever is rolled.

I'd prefer Gandalf the White to have Glamdring. Gandalf the Grey concerned himself with using his knowledge and wisdom to prepare for the coming wars, while Gandalf the White actually fought in those wars. Now I know Gandalf the Grey used Glamdring plenty, but not with the Constancy and impotence of Gandalf the White. When I think Of Gandalf the Grey I don't think of him charging into battle; Glambring unsheathed and ready to strike, but with Gandalf the White I do.

Originally Posted by White Knight

About Narya, from the Tolkien wiki:

"For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill." - Círdan the Shipwright.

It is described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny, domination and despair.

This sounds more like a Valiant bonus. Example:

Narya
All figures within 4 clear sight spaces of Gandalf are considered to have Valiant personalities.

Originally Posted by White Knight

I like SoA's Wise Counsel, but I'm not very excited about his Narya ability. It just doesn't seem to match the description of Narya, and it doesn't seem to fit with Gandalf to me. Most of the time, Gandalf fought alone, or told the others to stand back. Narya would force them to cluster around him.

I agree with SoA, changing figures personalities to valiant is broken. If we want to make Narya and Gandalf thematic we'll have to come up with a power that inspires allied figures while not jeopardizing his recluse like personality by making him a normal cheerleader like Raelin. It's a tall order, but I think we can come up with something that works. I don't have any bright ideas right now, I'm going to sleep on it and try to come up with something.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Here's a different idea for Wise Counsel

After revealing an order marker on Gandolin you may swap that order marker with any other order marker on a figure you control to take a turn with the swapped figure instead.

Caps and SoA are on the right track with Wise Counsel; Order marker flexibility will be useful in Fellowship scenarios. There's a lot of other ways to show Gandalfs wisdom and preparation, I'm going to post my ideas for it...that is once I think of them.

Originally Posted by Joseph Sweeney

LIFE = 7
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS =

Not a bad suggestion, do you still think he needs a fire type special attack if he has range? Or would the range suffice in representing his fire conjuring?

Originally Posted by Joseph Sweeney

Maybe a Hobbit bonding ability. After all he did manage to get Bilbo on his quest as well as Frodo.

I wasn't thinking bonding, but if we have the room I would like some sort of power that has to do with Hobbits.

[Joseph Sweeney]

Originally Posted by infectedsloth

Not a bad suggestion, do you still think he needs a fire type special attack if he has range? Or would the range suffice in representing his fire conjuring?

Hmmm,...I think the range attack represents his fire conjuring well enough, yes. But, I wouldn't be altogether opposed to getting rid of his normal range and giving him a SA with range instead.

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by Joseph Sweeney

Hmmm,...I think the range attack represents his fire conjuring well enough, yes. But, I wouldn't be altogether opposed to getting rid of his normal range and giving him a SA with range instead.

I would definitely prefer a SA.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by infectedsloth

I agree with SoA, changing figures personalities to valiant is broken. If we want to make Narya and Gandalf thematic we'll have to come up with a power that inspires allied figures while not jeopardizing his recluse like personality by making him a normal cheerleader like Raelin.

It wouldn't be "broken". However, it WOULD probably increase Gandalf's price quite a bit because of the 4th Mass synergy. And it would take a lot of playtesting with different 4th Mass army combinations to find a price that is not overpowered.

Because I that, I agree that we should probably avoid Valiant boosts. That's a shame, because I'm sure many of the HoME figures will be Valiant (and Tolkien actually uses the word "Valiant" to describe many of the heroes of the Edain).

Maybe something like this? (with better wording)

Narya
Friendly figures within 4 spaces of Gandalf cannot be affected by special abilities that allow opponents take control of their cards.

Of course, this would be most effective if Sauron, or the One Ring, or some of the other dark powers had some sort of Mindshackle type of power.

Originally Posted by infectedsloth

Not a bad suggestion, do you still think he needs a fire type special attack if he has range? Or would the range suffice in representing his fire conjuring?

I'd prefer a Range of 1 for his normal attack (and I'm OK with SoA's Glamdring ability bonus when attacking Goblins and Orcs--or Utgar/Valkrill figures). In addition, I'd like him to have a special attack.

[caps]

How does this look, as a modification of SoA's idea.

The Wise Warrior

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

NAME = GANDALF
GENERAL = AQUILLA JANDAR
PLANET = ARDA
SPECIES = MAIAR
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WIZARD/ISTARI
PERSONALITY = PERCEPTIVE ???
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 7 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS =

FLAME OF ANOR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 3.
When Gandalf attacks with his Flame of Anor Special Attack, he may attack 1 additional time. He cannot attack the same figure more than once.

GLAMDRING
When attacking a figure who follows Utgar or Valkrill, Gandalf rolls 1 additional attack die.

WISE COUNSEL
After revealing an order marker on Gandalf you may swap that order marker with any other order marker on a Unique Hero Army Card you control and take a turn with that figure instead of Gandalf.

What if we made Narya a treasure-glyph with scenario-specific effects, including a boon to overcoming the negative effects of the ring?

*Wise Counsel offers some synergy with the Fellowship, but some would like to see stronger synergy.
*Glamdring gives us a power related to his sword, but I am not sure what I think about that. It doesn't really seem like a super-important element of Gandalf.
*There's a lot of precedent in Heroscape for giving wizards a Normal Range instead of a Special Attack, and using that to represent whatever magical ability the player wants to imagine, so we could consider a normal range of 6 with a normal attack of 4, to give us room for other powers.

The Wise Leader

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

NAME = GANDALF
GENERAL = AQUILLA JANDAR
PLANET = ARDA
SPECIES = MAIAR
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WIZARD/ISTARI
PERSONALITY = PERCEPTIVE ???
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 7 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS =

RING OF NARYA
After a friendly figure receives a wound from an opponent's figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, remove one wound marker from the friendly figure's Army Card.

WISE COUNSEL
After revealing an order marker on Gandalf you may swap that order marker with any other order marker on a Unique Hero Army Card you control and take a turn with that figure instead of Gandalf.

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

*There's a lot of precedent in Heroscape for giving wizards a Normal Range instead of a Special Attack, and using that to represent whatever magical ability the player wants to imagine, so we could consider a normal range of 6 with a normal attack of 4, to give us room for other powers.

Lots? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can only think of Sonlen.(Who is an Archmage, Which stinks ) All the other wizards Have SA's (Including Estivara, Pelloth, and Eravan)

[Joseph Sweeney]

Originally Posted by boromir96

Lots? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can only think of Sonlen.(Who is an Archmage, Which stinks ) All the other wizards Have SA's (Including Estivara, Pelloth, and Eravan)

Pelloth has normal range (believe me, I am looking at his card.), Arkmer has normal range, and as does Ulginesh.

[White Knight]

My main issue with giving Gandalf an un-named normal ranged attack is theme: For Gandalf, what does that attack represent?

Arkmer's ranged attack has always seemed very plain to me--there is not even a name for his magical attack. Blah...

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by White Knight

My main issue with giving Gandalf an un-named normal ranged attack is theme: For Gandalf, what does that attack represent?

Arkmer's ranged attack has always seemed very plain to me--there is not even a name for his magical attack. Blah...

This^

@JS Forgot about them. They're kinda bland though...

[Sheep]

Have you guys thought of doing new Generals for HoME? Like Mordor (Utgar), Isengard (Valkrill), Golblins (???), Men (Jandar), Elves (Ullar), and Dwarves (Aquilla)? I'd like to see the art work this group could put into making card templates for this project.

Also, what are you guys doing for figures? I know there are LotR minis, but don't they come unpainted? I don't know about others, but I would definitely be repelled from them, if so (could I proxy? Yes, but it gets boring after awhile and you find yourself saying, "if only I had Gimli and Aragorn... ).

[caps]

Originally Posted by heroscaper2010

Have you guys thought of doing new Generals for HoME? Like Mordor (Utgar), Isengard (Valkrill), Golblins (???), Men (Jandar), Elves (Ullar), and Dwarves (Aquilla)? I'd like to see the art work this group could put into making card templates for this project.

Also, what are you guys doing for figures? I know there are LotR minis, but don't they come unpainted? I don't know about others, but I would definitely be repelled from them, if so (could I proxy? Yes, but it gets boring after awhile and you find yourself saying, "if only I had Gimli and Aragorn... ).

Why don't you go read all of our extensive discussion of those topics in the discussion thread, instead of posting about them in our design brainstorming thread?