C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions here!

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Of course I'm aware of the intent of the power, but I don't like the idea of passing any sort of ruling based on the concept that "this is what this character should/shouldn't be able to do." To go that way lies madness. If Puppet Master will be updated with "non-Event heroes" or there's some update to the Event Heroes that says "all Event Heroes automatically have the Mental Shield special power," that's fine, but by the books, Reactive Mind Control DOES work on Event Heroes.

Not that I don't respect the ability of the Heroes to re-write those books, but until they're re-written, they're the books I'll play by.

(And honestly, Puppet Master never struck me as a "mind control" kind of guy... from what I've seen and read he just controls a person's body, not their mind. Though I suppose it's a few months late to point that out!)

We are working on changing the cards right now. However, if we want to rule an FAQ to go in one direction, even if the card's text, "the book", doesn't support it, we can. We control the horizontal and the lateral here. Just like Death Reavers got an errata, we can give Puppet Master one as well.

I know what you are saying about his true powers. He is supposed to only be able to manipulate body movements and control that completely, however, he has been written very inconsistently over time, and on numerous times, I have seen his controlled subjects' bodies and minds under his control. I am guessing that because the mind is part of the body, he can sometimes control that. It has also been hinted at and it is unrevealed that he could possibly have some type of low level psionic power that helps him use the radioactive clay.

[Hidicul]

Also as far as game mechanics go, control of the body=control of the mind. It has to be equal because there is no real way to make the two different without an involved rule which is something that is not needed and probably not wanted by the majority.

Griff, if you guys aren't already doing this, can we get an addition to the Event Hero special rule stateing that all Event Heroes have the Mental Shield special power please. I think in the long run, having that will take care of most of these sort of problems.

[davidlhsl]

Originally Posted by Hidicul

Griff, if you guys aren't already doing this, can we get an addition to the Event Hero special rule stateing that all Event Heroes have the Mental Shield special power please. I think in the long run, having that will take care of most of these sort of problems.

I just checked both Mental Shield on Magneto's card and the Event Hero's rules, and the following (comparable) line is included in both:

Originally Posted by Event Hero excerpt

Players may never take temporary or permanent control of an opponent's Event Hero.

So it seems that Event Heroes already have Mental Shield.

However, Puppet Master's power allows him to move the attacking figure. It's not saying that Puppet Master is taking control of it. I wouldn't have interpreted both instances to be the same.

Edit: Oh, maybe you want Mental Shield specifically mentioned in the Event Heroes to make referencing the ability in other powers easier.

[IAmBatman]

Very interesting stuff, guys. Thanks for bringing all of this up.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Hidicul

Also as far as game mechanics go, control of the body=control of the mind. It has to be equal because there is no real way to make the two different without an involved rule which is something that is not needed and probably not wanted by the majority.

Griff, if you guys aren't already doing this, can we get an addition to the Event Hero special rule stateing that all Event Heroes have the Mental Shield special power please. I think in the long run, having that will take care of most of these sort of problems.

No that it isn't necessary. What we are gonna do though, is edit the PM text so that Event Heroes are immune, and we are gonna do it in a way that we feel is very responsible. Basically, by stating that Puppet Master's player (you) takes control of the attacking figure, something we should have done to begin with.

[Hidicul]

Originally Posted by Griffin

No that it isn't necessary. What we are gonna do though, is edit the PM text so that Event Heroes are immune, and we are gonna do it in a way that we feel is very responsible. Basically, by stating that Puppet Master's player (you) takes control of the attacking figure, something we should have done to begin with.

That works for the Puppet Master problem, but putting it in the Event Hero rules would prevent it from being a problem with any other powers. It's your call though so what ever you guys feel is the best way to handle this in the future is the way it will go.

[Margloth]

All this discussion is telling me that Mr. Mxy should be your go-to counterdraft to Puppet Master...

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Hidicul

That works for the Puppet Master problem, but putting it in the Event Hero rules would prevent it from being a problem with any other powers. It's your call though so what ever you guys feel is the best way to handle this in the future is the way it will go.

No. We are ALWAYS gonna use the exact same wording convention on powers that "take control" of other figures. Are you just not getting it or what?

EVENT HERO SPECIAL RULE:
When selecting cards to put in your Army, you cannot select two of the same Event Army Card. Event Heroes are never destroyed without first taking enough wounds to be destroyed. If a terrain rule or a special power on any Army Card, Glyph, or Destructible Object would automatically destroy an Event Hero, that terrain rule or special power instead inflicts 4 wounds on that Event Hero. Players may never take temporary or permanent control of an opponent's Event Hero.

So if a power (like Reactive Mind Control) specifies to take temporary control of a figure, that makes Event Heroes exempt.

[IAmBatman]

Yep. This used to be a "take control of" power in theme only. Now we're altering the mechanics to be appropriate for that theme. Good change here, team!

[Sam]

That makes Puppet Master a little more manageable! He's been really dominant so far... I'm with Margloth - Mr. Mxy looks a good choice to counter (and he's the only Event Hero I have at the moment!).

I think C3G and Classic must be ruling the whole fireline\explosion\Abomination Stomp etc vs Spider Sense\Radar Sense\Evasive Strike etc differently (due to this post I chanced on in the Book of Pelloth).

Wow - it's going to be a big change to play it the C3G way, and a big power-shift for some characters. Cyclops gets a heck of a boost here (for me, anyway) - he just brushes these powers aside!

Thanks for answering my questions, guys!

[IAmBatman]

Honestly, I've always played it the way Killercactus does. Powers like Optic Blast get around something like Intangible because he targets spaces instead of figures, but I've always rolled for Spidey-Sense and powers like it before rolling defense dice, whatever the reason might be I was rolling defense dice. I hadn't heard of Griff's way of doing it until his post in this thread.

[Sam]

In that case, could I get a clarified ruling on Optic Blast etc vs Spider-Sense etc?

Thanks!