Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

[ElvenEnvy]

What would be cool, is if the BoV made a little crest. The map creator could edit their PDF and put the BoV's seal in it if approved. On the site it's easy to tell a BoV map with stickies and titles, but on my printed copies it's not always apparent.

[AliasQTip]

Originally Posted by ElvenEnvy

What would be cool, is if the BoV made a little crest. The map creator could edit their PDF and put the BoV's seal in it if approved. On the site it's easy to tell a BoV map with stickies and titles, but on my printed copies it's not always apparent.

Umm - see 9 posts above.

I knew I shouldn't have put it in a spoiler.

[ElvenEnvy]

Originally Posted by AliasQTip

Umm - see 9 posts above.

I knew I shouldn't have put it in a spoiler.

That would definitely do the job.

Isn't it craszy how I think of something, and then it's magically done a few days prior.

[1Mmirg]

Currently, BoV maps are stickied and noted as BoV in their titles (as well as being listed here). So far this has seemed sufficient. We are looking at further distinguishing them, but haven't decided if doing so is worth the added time and effort, since the system seems to be working fairly well.

Thanks for your efforts and suggestions. We certainly listen and pay attention--and may even take one of you up on the offered help. We appreciate what you all bring to the BoV.

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Eggbeater by dok

dok is a mapmaker after my own heart. He takes on tough challenges, looking for ways to use specific combinations of Master sets and expansions. With Eggbeater, he tackles in one map two of the hardest Master sets to deal with (Marvel and BftU), coupling them together with the popular RttFF expansion. I’m honestly not sure if a better tourney map could be made from these sets than what dok has done.

That said, the map does suffer from a variety of issues, some of greater import than others, but all issues that weigh on my vote:

Road tiles are at the high points of the map – I know not everyone agrees with me, but I dislike road tiles being the high points on a map, especially a relatively flat map. Play tends to be disproportionately affected by the roads, leading to more congestion in a relatively small area and offering quick repositioning that leads to a more “swingy” game, in my opinion.

Aesthetic challenges – While this map does play well (and very fast—even quicker than Fossil, its pseudo-mirror), it is not a particularly nice map to look at; there I said it. One side has a clear grass start zone, the other an only mostly distinct rock one. Asphalt acts as a filler leading to an unpleasant patchwork effect. This map simply does not look that good. Given more tiles to work with, I know the asphalt could be used to more effect (it's actually quite striking when adjacent to shadow tiles), but here the final effect (limited as dok is by the sets he is trying to revitalize with more tourney-life) is too haphazard for my tastes. This is a map I have to explain (apologize for), rather than display as a set piece, as most BoV maps can be.

Not enough variety in play – While this map does remind me of Fossil, there is simply less elevation change, less interesting factors (like the bridge walls) or the 4 space high point ridges behind line of sight blockers, and more of a wide open, quick scramble effect. Games on this map generally played out fairly similarly, with just not enough places to go or different positions to effectively take. They tended to be more about the dice rolled than the positioning, I felt. Fossil has both high points and relative high points (like the side 7-hex sand pieces), whereas Eggbeater has simply progressively higher points, pushing the action uphill fairly consistently. The use of shadow tiles is fun and effective, though I’d have liked to have seen more use of shadow near high points or trying to offset road height. (Again, I know that if dok wasn't so stretched for pieces, he would have done this.)

In a single sentence, this is a map that just felt a bit too constrained by the sets it was trying to use. It is an excellent (perhaps best ever) use of these sets, but is finally limited by its own aims and components.

I enjoyed my games on Eggbeater, I recommend it, and I hope many will try it out. It is a very worthy map. Finally, however, I just didn’t feel it was truly among the best of the best overall.

I regretfully vote NO to induct Eggbeater into the BoV.

[Riggler]

Updated 3/16/11
Logged Lonewolf's YtI Eggbeater
Logged Riggler's NtI Fire Swamp
Removed Fire Swamp
Logged Dignan NtI Jack of Spades; NtR Marginal Gain
Logged nyys NtR Marginal Gain
Logged 1Mmirg NtR Marginal Gain; NtI Eggbeater
Removed Marginal Gain from pending review

Maps pending acceptance for review:
None

Maps currently being reviewed:
Jack of Spades by Gamebear
YES = 2 (Matthias Maccabeus, 1Mmirg) ; NO = 1 (Dignan) ; Pending = 3 (Riggler, Lonewolf, nyys)

Eggbeater by dok
YES = 1 (Lonewolf) ; NO = 1 (1Mmirg) ; Pending = 4 (Dignan, Riggler, Matthias Maccabeus, nyys)

Yea Though I Walk by Typhon222
YES = 0 ; NO = 0 ; Pending = 6 (1Mmirg, Dignan, Riggler, Lonewolf, Matthias Maccabeus, nyys)

Moltenclaw's Gulch 2.1 by BiggaBullfrog
YES = 0 ; NO = 0 ; Pending = 6 (1Mmirg, Dignan, Riggler, Lonewolf, Matthias Maccabeus, nyys)

[nyys]

Wow, I always seem to do this after Riggler updates...

Jack of Spades by Gamebear

I got to play on Jack of Spades for the 1st time at TotalCon a couple weeks ago and I took that as an opportunity to roll that into more testing at home.

I found few, if any, faults with this map regardless of the army I played. All three 'zones' of the map are equally important (the middle height and the glyph locations on the ends) which brings action to all parts of the map.

The Jungle trees, brush, and shadow tiles provided good cover for melee troops to get across in good numbers, and the footprint is small enough for them to both get across, and crash into ranged troops sitting on the middle hill, should they win the race to it.

Jack of Spades doesn't have the 'wow' factor I usually look for in a map, but it does have something that will become increasing more important as Scape disappears from the shelves for good. It's main build requirements are the D&D and Marvel sets, both very much accessible still. Granted the jungle is hard to get, but it's the easiest terrain set to make your own.

I vote YES to induct Jack of Spades into the BoV.

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Yea Though I Walk by Typhon222

I like this map a lot, but I can't get beyond the repetitive static glyphs. Two move and two initiative glyphs are one the map, and it just doesn't do it for me. Once an army controlled both moves glyphs (when it happened) it was game over, especially for strong melee armies. I do include the initiative glyph in my random glyph pools, but I prefer them to be that, random, not static. Two static are two too many IMO.

I vote NO to induct Yeah Though I Walk... into the BoV.

I did play a game or two with reworked glyphs on this map. Removed the initiative glyph locations, and added one to the middle shadow pool, and we also used the move glyph locations as well. All random. Made for some really fun games, and a much more interesting map IMO.

[Typhon2222]

Thanks for the feedback nyys! I know it's a lot of work for you gents to test these maps, not to mention composing the reviews afterwards.

I shy away from random glyphs in general because I dislike the asymmetry they often introduce. Nothing like facing off in a tourney, only to find that your opponent has drawn something nifty (say, Valda) for the glyph near him, while you've drawn something like Lodin for the glyph near you. But perhaps I should rethink..... Especially since others have had the same reservations as you.

[1Mmirg]

FWIW, my aim with glyphs and maps is to try to make either glyph at least close to equally accessible to either player. I think Dignan once called glyphs where one is closer to a player than another "his/hers glyphs" and that has stuck with me. It is a potential problem.

It does make it hard, but it's an important part of the map--balancing the glyphs and still keeping them interesting. That said, I haven't played on your map yet at all (it's coming up soon).

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Riggler

Updated 3/16/11

Logged Riggler's NtI Fire Swamp
Removed Fire Swamp

Awww... that's too bad.

I kind of figured that you guys wouldn't like the choke points, but thought that maybe the map would still prove interesting enough and a bit of a contrast from the norm we've grown accustomed to. Aaah well - thanks to everyone for the consideration!

PS - I'd love to hear other judges' take on the map if you got to playtest it some before the 2 NO votes in a PM or something if you're interested...

[Scapemage]

Hey, wouldn't be cool if the official map, Feldspar Pass, was in BoV?

[1Mmirg]

I noticed that it looked nicely balanced and attractive. I worry about the highest high points, but I have to admit I do look forward to building it (and GameBear's Bad Moon, by the by) when I have a chance. It definitely interests me, though I'm not sure it was made to be a tourney map, necessarily.

[Scapemage]

Originally Posted by 1Mmirg

I noticed that it looked nicely balanced and attractive. I worry about the highest high points, but I have to admit I do look forward to building it (and GameBear's Bad Moon, by the by) when I have a chance. It definitely interests me, though I'm not sure it was made to be a tourney map, necessarily.

Well it does satisfy the requirements and ertainly looks like a tournament map.