C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

[dok]

Originally Posted by orcelfarmyone

I think Iskra deserves a boost. For only 50 points, she is a good option with skeletons. 4x skeletons, Iskra, Isamu, and Marcu is good for 500. 4x skeletons is good, and Iskra reborns an average of 15.5 skeletons, or almost the same amount you started with!

I think you're right. I've always felt that Iskra was a little bit underrated anyway. The Rechets are bad, but Iskra herself is a decent cleanup figure.

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

Considering he's ranged, I'd think he'd be a better with them than Ara. Cheaper too.

He might be better, but the point is that he would be outstanding. Pointing out that Sonlen's versatility doesn't make him excellent misses the mark for a comparison with Arashara. Arashara's powers are versatile and potentially game-changing, but without bonding, she would be extremely overpriced.

Originally Posted by boromir96

Ya know, you can only theoryscape so much..... Why don't you give her a try?

I think you might just change your mind.....

Yeah, pretty much. I understand the skepticism. I would argue that this figure has something much more generally useful than a ranged attack. Plenty of playtesters started their tests with a lot of skepticism about the price, but then found themselves defeating established effective armies using Arashara and the Greeks/Romans.

[awesomeunleashed]

En masse, the Eradicators can be very effective. I wouldn't be suprised if more tourney results showed that they needed to be moved up to A-.

[dok]

Originally Posted by awesomeunleashed

En masse, the Eradicators can be very effective. I wouldn't be suprised if more tourney results showed that they needed to be moved up to A-.

Yeah, they're definitely on my radar.

EDIT: I moved Iskra up from C to B-.

[Foudzing]

First of all, great work!

Some question/propositions:
.Don't the Zettians Guards must go a bit down, since there is ZI now?
.Arashara is too high to me, she's difficult to play and you're no sure she'll be effective even if you play it right because you lose your "turn" if the power fails.
.Deathstrike Thrall is better than Preyblood Thrall.
.Capt John Varan seems a bit high too, I never saw someone use it effectively.
. Horned Skulls Brutes still B+? They rocks at every tournament we run, they really deserve A-.
. Marro Gnids are a bit high to me too.

Everything else is good, great job again!

[dok]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

First of all, great work!

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Don't the Zettians Guards must go a bit down, since there is ZI now?

Not really. There were always better options available for the points than the Zettian Guards, and that's no more true now than it was before. The ranking of the Zettian Guards reflects the power of the best armies that the Zettian Guards can be in, and that is unchanged.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Arashara is too high to me, she's difficult to play and you're no sure she'll be effective even if you play it right because you lose your "turn" if the power fails.

She is a bit tricky to play well, but not extremely hard. It does take some practice.

Obviously, there's lots of disagreement on Arashara's rank, and against some opposition she will look extremely overpriced. But IMO the B+ accurately reflects how dominant her armies can be against a fairly wide range of opposing armies on the right maps.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Deathstrike Thrall is better than Preyblood Thrall.

I agree. However, if anything, I might have the Preybloods a bit high. I am really not very impressed with the Thralls. They've been used a fair amount in the online events, and I haven't seen them win against anything decent.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Capt John Varan seems a bit high too, I never saw someone use it effectively.

Neither have I, to be honest, but I think his potential with a well-timed Airborne Elite drop is pretty phenomenal.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Horned Skulls Brutes still B+? They rocks at every tournament we run, they really deserve A-.

Interesting. Although I'm a fan of them in theory, I've yet to see them used effectively (and I've tried). I've been toying with raising the cutters, but not the HSBs. Could you link me to some tournament results where they did well?

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Marro Gnids are a bit high to me too.

I tend to agree; they feel a bit more like a B to me. That said, they are cheap and fast. A lot of the testers were high on them when the wave came out, and I kicked them up a notch over where my instincts put them. Do we have any real-world results with them? I'm not sure I've heard of anyone using the gnids.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by dok

Interesting. Although I'm a fan of them in theory, I've yet to see them used effectively (and I've tried). I've been toying with raising the cutters, but not the HSBs. Could you link me to some tournament results where they did well?

Of course!

http://forum.heroscape.free.fr/phpBB...pic.php?t=3675

This is the summer 2011 event, as the format is a bit tricky (you have to use 3 times an army and 3times another to play a total of 6 games) I'll resume the HSB result.

Da (the winner of the tournament which is only 12 or 13 years old) went 3-0 with:
Raelin 80
Major Q10 150
4x HSB 300

With this army he wins:
vs 3x Knights+Gilbert+Eltahale on incedium lead by another experimented young player (who also won a tournament) (182points left)
vs 5xDCoT+Raelin+Nerak+Ogre Pulverizer on ice blossom vs a very experimented adult player (230 left, not even close)
vs TKN+2xNabgrubs+3xPKs+MW on ticalla vs a young quite experimented player (like 16 years old) (135points left)

It's kinda impressive.

The second tournament:
http://forum.heroscape.free.fr/phpBB...pic.php?t=4033

This is last summer event I personnally went with the HSB with a quite competitive build I admitt:
Raelin
3xRats
3xHSB
Krav-Maga

I went 2-1 with this not bad even if I expected a 3-0 :P

Large win vs Monks+Master woo+Rae
Close win vs Vulchanmeg+Nakitas agents+FGoM+Raelin against the player who won last year
Lose vs 3xDwarves+Darrack+Morgrimm+AE but I really played bad this one and make several mistakes vs the winner of this 2012's tournament.

You can also watch all the tournament results as an enormous amount of C3V figures were played in it (Varnakaan, Skelettons, ZI, Vulchanmechs, Haduc) I think it would help you for the ranking.
Varnakaan did really well, event if the format (3games with an army 3 games with another advantages them). ZI did good too, Vulchanmechs and Skeletons did no that good (surprising no?)

Finally we have also a kind of MLH league and the HSB are doing really good in it.

I think the HSB+Cutters combo is not a big deal, much more for fun than competitiveness.
HSB+Rats it's an insanely good combo (in your famous compo skip the hydra for 2 squads of HSB and it's even horrible than before for only 30 points more), engage with the rats, barge into the battle, re-engage the rats thanks to Scatter, Barge into the battle with the renforciements, it's close to be broken believe me!
HSB+Krav is very fun and quite effective, when the opponent finally suceed to engage the Kravs you use barge into the battle and laugh at him (works also with Nakitas).
HSB+PKs is also one of my favorite, the OM management is a bit tricky but what a fun.

To me they have like almost no weaknesses, they're fast (barge into the battle) stongs (4/4 for 75points) have great synergies (see above). Fortunately they don't have range.

P.S: And yes I belong to the people who thinks Arashara is overpriced, 150 were good, 200 is too much.
It's even worse for us french people we do not have like 4 squads of legionnaries. T.T
Personally I use it at 80points without bonding.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by dok

I agree. However, if anything, I might have the Preybloods a bit high. I am really not very impressed with the Thralls. They've been used a fair amount in the online events, and I haven't seen them win against anything decent.

I totally agree with you here, they're both bad, but the Preyblood is way worse than the Deathstrike Thrall. I think you just have to go a bit down with the Preyblood Thrall and you're OK.
Fortunately Nicholas is good.

Anyway I don't feel attract by this army I played against once and destroy it only with a bunch of Legionnaries with almost no loss.

Sinve I'm here I (and all the french community) think also that the FGoM is waaaaaay underestimate, he's really good, we use it a lot. It's a shame for him to be on the same level as the Master of the Hunt...

And all the changes are great to me Nilfheim re-up to A, 10th up to A.... great job.

I played against and with the Marro Gnids and they're not a big deal, I don't think they can be competitive. I would place them at the level of Anubians wolves, Venoc Vipers, Aubirans Archers and all this stuff.

[caps]

Fascinating stuff Foudzing, now I have a bunch of new strategies to try with the Horned Skull Brutes.

I agree that the Frost Giant of Morh is pretty good. He is almost always a pick at our casual game nights and usually does a fair bit of damage. I don't think people are in the habit of bringing him to tournaments in the U.S.A. though.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I agree that the Frost Giant of Morh is pretty good. He is almost always a pick at our casual game nights and usually does a fair bit of damage. I don't think people are in the habit of bringing him to tournaments in the U.S.A. though.

Sure, a Frost Giant against a full 4th is kind of useless.

But in France he does quite well even in tournaments, this surprised me a bit but the experience said that for us he's a strong contact hero, almost as competitive as Eltahale, just a little under Krug and Sgt. Drake V2.

In the french community everyone knows everyone. That's why our tournaments, even if there is some competitive armies, are more amicals tournaments between friends.

The rule is: you can play a broken army if it's new, but forbidden to play things like full stingers+Rae, full 4th or rats+Q9+Rae. Builds like Heavys Gruts and Glad/blasts are in the limit, you can bring them once but if you keep bringing them you'll be grounded on the forums.

Moreover most of us cannot afford to have like 4 times all the common squads, only 3 guys have a very big collection like yours, we've to deal with it, if there is no more Deathreavers, you can't play them. :P

That's why we don't have exactly the same metagame as your, but it's almost the same.

I close the Off-Topic here I think I'm going a bit far.

[Tiranx]

Just had a great tournament with Zettian Infantry. Here is the link to the battle report,
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...87&postcount=3

Took
Zettian Infantry X2
Deathwalker 9000
Warden 816
Deathreavers X3
Marcu

I almost think that Warden could use a bump with Zettian Infantry. He helped take the Zettian Infantry to a 4th place win in the Utah NHSD tournament.

[dok]

Anyone with playtesting experience on the large figures is welcome to chime in with thoughts on their power rankings.

[caps]

Well, the Incendiborgs should probably be an A.