The C3G Book of Thanos

[Hahma]

Apparently the first test wasn't as close as it first seemed since Smithy Winfred just told me in a PM that the army with Grundy had 200 more points to account for him not being able to ressurect. I told him that it would be nice if he put the point totals on the test sheet because we have too much to do to add them all up all the time to see what the army points are.

So it's looking like for sure he can be boosted. Maybe tonight I'll pm the other testers to have them bump him up to 500 or 550 points for any test they haven't started yet.

[Margloth]

Yeah, actually I think a number of play testers have gotten bad at not putting Army point totals in their tests.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, but Heroes are inconsistent with that too, Margloth, so I'm not sure if we've expressed that as a clear expectation. I know Griff never really put down army point totals. It's definitely something I always do, because I know it helps me analyze my results. So if we want to ask public testers to do that, I'm all for it.

And, yeah, maybe go 500 for now, Hahma?

[tcglkn]

I don't like when public testers make assumptions like that and give one team way more points or something. If you are going to draft Grundy against Thanos you better avoid him or kill him before he kills you with his SA.

[Hahma]

I just sent PM's to the testers and asked them to bump his cost to 500 points for any tests that they haven't started yet.

I agree Tickle and PM'd SW about not adjusting army costs like that. He replied that he did it because of Thanos' speed and maneuverability. I told him that we don't do that. Thanos is just a great counter to Grundy and Doomsday, but so what, we have a ton of other figures to use. I also said that opponents often avoid attacking Grundy if possible to bypass him coming back, so that's no different than Thanos killing him and not letting him come back. I said there are lots of situations that Grundy isn't good in, but if he can be moved/carried to help his mobility and get engaged to an opponent's 300+ point figure, then he can make things happen by doing damage and forcing the opponent to deal with him and maybe allow him to come back later.

I also asked him to include army point totals at the end of each listed army. We have enough to look at without having to add up army points.

[SirGalahad]

When did it ever become OK for playtesters to make those kinds of point decisions?

[Hahma]

When they are new and think they can do that.

I told him not to do it again. You don't give one army more points because you think it will make it more fair. The results will be the results based on allotted costs for each army being the same, or withing 5 or 10 points of each other. Thanos is a total counter to Grundy, Doomsday and now Gentleman Ghost. You just don't play those figures against Thanos in a real game, it wouldn't be prudent unless you can make sure those figures get killed by other means than his Permanent Death.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks for helping get those young whipper snappers into shape, Hambone.

[Hahma]

Playtest from Streaky

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Thanos

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would beany loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Fail - he's unbeatable!

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 700+
- Give a brief overview. Thanos stomped everyone!
Map: Dark Dimension
Units: Thanos, Puppet Master, Mole Man and 6x Moloids vs. Deadpool, Wolverine, Angel & Human Torch (Jim Hammond)

Spoiler Alert!

Thanos gives Deadpool 4 wounds in round 1, then finishes him off in round 2. At the end of round 2, Puppet Master uses Thanos to kill Angel. By the end of round 3, Thanos and Wolverine have 3 wounds each. In round 4, Wolverine kills Thanos and Puppet Master uses Human Torch to attack Wolverine. In round 5, Thanos returns and kills Human Torch. A couple of wounds are dished out in round 6. In round 7, Wolverine triple attacks Mole Man, rolling 3, 3 and 2 skulls, but Mole Man avoids them all with subterranian senses. Then Thanos has 2 devastating attacks on Wolverine to finish him off. A couple of moloids died, 1 in round 4 and 1 in round 6.

Winners: Thanos, Puppet Master, Mole Man (1 wound), 4 (of 6) Moloids

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 700+
- Give a brief overview. Thanos stomped everyone again!
Map: Dark Dimension
Units: Thanos, Super-Skrull (Rl'nnd), Blob, 1x Civilians squad vs. Captain Mar-Vell, She-Hulk, Blade, Ant-Man, 2x Fire Ant Swarm

Spoiler Alert!

In round 1 Mar-Vell gives Thanos a couple of wounds on his way to the rest of his team. In round 2 She-Hulk takes out a civilian, but recives 5 wounds from Super-Skrull and Thanos. In round 3, Super-Skrull kills off She-Hulk, Mar-Vell kills 2 more civilians and Thanos kills himself by attacking Mar-Vell and getting the backlash from Cosmic Awareness. In round 4, Thanos returns and gives Mar-Vell 4 wounds and Mar-Vell manages 5 wounds on Blob. In round 5, Thanos kills off Mar-Vell and Blade steps up to give Thanos a wound. In round 6, Blade gives Thanos another wound but receives 4 in return. Blade manages to get to Blob and finish him off before Thanos catches him and kills him. Super-Skrull finishes off the Fire Ants in rounds 6 & 7, and round 8 Ant-Man manages to give Thanos a wound before Thanos stomps him.

Winners: Thanos (3 wounds), Super-Skrull, 1 (of 4) Civilians

I love Thanos and thinks he's great, but I still think 500 points is too low. Comparing him with Mar-Vell and Brainiac, he's much nearer Brainiac's league.

Brainiac has 12 life - Thanos has at least that because he's coming back at least once.
Brainiac can attempt to shrink figures then has an 85% chance of destroying them - Thanos can attack 3 figures with 6 attack dice and if they are destroyed they can't come back.
Brainiac can sometimes cause 1 wound to an opponent's figure if they're adjacent to each other - Thanos has a higher normal attack, and has a special attack that equals Brainiac's range

Mar-Vell has 2 more range and doesn't take leaving engagement attacks - Thanos has 1 more attack and life, can attack 3 times in some cases. Plus he can keep coming back! For all Mar-Vell's great powers, with only 5 life and 5+1 auto defence he can be stomped by Thanos with 2 attacks - and he's 400 points

That's why I think Thanos right now is more like 700 points at least. I think that 500 could work if you removed his flying special power or reducing his attack to 6. I prefer dropping flying. He does have a teleportation chair, but the figure doesn't. Also, the chair would give him time travel and a force field, neither of which are on this card, so I think it makes sense to drop the flying power. With it he can get anywhere, with height and stomp anyone from range, and it's not in anybody's interest to attack him until everyone else is dead.
Info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos#..._and_abilities

This is only the second playtest I've ever done, and I didn't get any feedback on the last one, so I hope I've done it OK. I have a complete turn breakdown if you want more info, I just didn't want to swamp you with waffle. If you'd like to know anything else, feel free to ask.

Thanks for letting me playtest this for you.
Steve

[Hahma]

Well, not really getting to the enemy SZ to kill Thanos' teammates didn't help here. Single activation opponent armies give Thanos plenty of them to move around and mess people up. If you can kill him on the first turn when he has all OM's on his card, that gives you 2 turns to work on his teammates.

Man, this is what ticks me off about people taking so long to get the tests in. If I needed to make adjustments, it would have been nice to have a quick turn around with tests and then bump is cost and send him back out. Of course having a couple people bail on the test didn't help either. Ugh! Seems like all the experienced testers are MIA on this one. This one might just have to go on hold for a few months after all the results are in. I'm really hating how this design is going.

[tcglkn]

I would PM a couple of testers you trust and ask them to sign up for this one for you.

[Hahma]

I'll wait until all the results are in. I want to know what the heck I'm dealing with before asking even more people to test him. Truthfully, at this point I don't really care about him getting done in any hurry anymore.