The Book of Puppet Master

[johnny139]

Puppet Master seems really awesome but personally I've never had luck with him.

[dok]

That's a fantastic list, ibechief. Thanks. +rep.

Originally Posted by johnny139

Puppet Master seems really awesome but personally I've never had luck with him.

If you just roll him out and see what happens, he's hit and miss unless the map is huge and wide-open. But if he's protected the right way (5th Prescinct Beat Cops, Bizarro, Superman, Jocasta, Angel, Shadowcat, etc...) and you don't have the right counter (something from ibechief's list, or an army that can hide everyone except Event Heroes/Commons/Squads until he's dead), then he can pretty much dominate the game.

[ibechief]

I've played with this design myself and I have to say he valued in at about double his points. I felt like I was not rolling above or below average. I was very lucky though, in that he was my last draft and was not countered with d20 wounding abilities or line of sight blockers/avoiders. Given an opposition lacking counters this guy can earn his points for sure.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by dok

Hey all,

Is there anywhere I can find a list of all the unique heroes that have either the Mental Shield power, or some power that prevents them from being selected with clear sight powers? Or figures that confer those powers on others, like Doctor Light and Shadowcat. Obviously commons, squads, and Event Heroes are other options, but those are relatively easy to find.

(I'm afraid I have to agree that this is the most broken figure in the set... when I first skimmed this card I missed that the range on string pull is unlimited, and that he gets two chances per OM. Yowza.)

Also, there is a thread I'm working on which breaks down C3G units by powers/abilities, I just haven't had time lately to work on getting it current with having a newborn son to take care of. There's a link to it in my signature.

[SirGalahad]

The Sortable Index has a column for powers that prevent opponents' control.

[dok]

Originally Posted by SirGalahad

The Sortable Index has a column for powers that prevent opponents' control.

Wow, I completely missed the other tabs in the index. The powers tab is fantastic. Thanks!

Originally Posted by ibechief

Gorilla Grood has a very similar power called Cognizant Control 16. So this is not the only card that works this way.

Sure, but GG costs 60% more, and has a 25% chance of succeeding instead of PM's 46% chance of succeeding once, and 12% chance of succeeding twice! GG is tougher aside from that, but PM's super-Vanish power gives him decent survivability even against very strong figures.

Originally Posted by ibechief

Also you can see that many counters exist for Puppet Master's power.

Again, it's a great list, and of course it omits the Event Heroes and commons/squads that are also good counters to PM. But frankly, most of that list is not very good as a PM counter. A few cheaper options (Mass Master for instance) are marginal if PM isn't supported by defensive figures, but really, you need to go to the big, expensive figures on that list - Magneto, Doctor Doom, Juggernaut, Super-Skrull, Martian Manhunter, multiple White Martians - before you find figures that can truly counter Puppet Master with any consistency.

The bigger problem with Puppet Master is not that there aren't figures that can counter him. It's that if you have any big hitter figures that are vulnerable to him, and they can't be hidden behind a blocker (or protected by Shadowcat), PM will have an extremely easy time earning his points several times over. You basically have to structure your build around being able to counter him, or accept that he will be under-priced against you.

This reminds me a bit of Joker - he's not overpowered if you have a very balanced army where every spot for an OM has comparable value, but if you have some weak cheerleaders or fillers in your build, he can ruin your round half the time. So if he's in the other army, it's not enough to have a counter - you need your entire build to account for his presence.

[whitestuff]

Originally Posted by dok

This reminds me a bit of Joker - he's not overpowered if you have a very balanced army where every spot for an OM has comparable value, but if you have some weak cheerleaders or fillers in your build, he can ruin your round half the time. So if he's in the other army, it's not enough to have a counter - you need your entire build to account for his presence.

I love the Joker. That dude cracks me up. I laugh manically every time I've played him (when you roll well that is).

There's lots of characters where you make the signature noises as you play them; Wolverine, Nightcrawler... There's not many that make you a little bit like the actual character...

[ibechief]

Originally Posted by whitestuff

I love the Joker. That dude cracks me up. I laugh manically every time I've played him (when you roll well that is).

There's lots of characters where you make the signature noises as you play them; Wolverine, Nightcrawler... There's not many that make you a little bit like the actual character...

*In the voice of the most interesting man in the world*

whitestuff doesn't always post, but when he does. He cracks me up.

[MegaSilver]

dok, I think it's great that you've come over to play C3G. Your analyses are great.

MegaSilver, who notes that online play have brought others over to C3G...

[dok]

In addition to this awesome list...

Originally Posted by ibechief

Spoiler Alert!

Mental Shield Designs

• Baron Zemo
• Doctor Doom
• Juggernaut
• Lockheed
• Magneto (I)
• Magneto (II)

Invisibility Designs

• Invisible Woman

Partial Invisibility Designs

• Super-Skrull (Kl'rt)

Cloud Cover Designs

• Mass Master

Cloak Of Dormammu Designs

• The Hood

Density Control Designs

• Vision

Intangibility Designs

• White Martian
• Shadowcat
• Martian Manhunter
• Red Ghost

Stealth Mode Designs

• Batman (Terry)

Blinding Light Designs

• Doctor Light

Phase Touch Designs

• Shadowcat

Fog Cover Designs

• Weather Wizard

... we should add:

Chameleon - If he impersonates someone other than Puppet Master, PM can't target him

Mandarin - If you're playing on a map with good sight lines, you've already drafted a number of unique heroes, and your opponent drafts PM, Mandarin is probably the best response, because he can protect up to 6 figures. He can also bring one figure up alongside him.

Mandarin + Nick Fury + SHIELD commons seems like a fun army.

[weebaer]

Does Puppet Master's reactive mind control ability come into affect when an area of effect attack hits him?

He is not the initial "target" or might not be "targeted" for things like Cyclops's Optic Blast, Black canary's canary cry, so his reactive mind control is bypassed correct?

[dok]

Originally Posted by weebaer

Does Puppet Master's reactive mind control ability come into affect when an area of effect attack hits him?

He is not the initial "target" or might not be "targeted" for things like Cyclops's Optic Blast, Black canary's canary cry, so his reactive mind control is bypassed correct?

Correct. PM's power only works if he is directly attacked. Powers like the Canary Cry do not target figures - they only affect spaces. They are like Mimring's fire line.

A power that targets a figure and affects adjacent figures, like Alfred Pennyworth's Shotgun Blast, only triggers Reactive Mind Control if Puppet Master is the initial targeted figure. If Alfred targets PM, PM rolls for RMC, and if he hits it the whole attack is cancelled*. If Alfred targets a figure next to PM, PM does not get to roll for RMC and has to roll defense.

This all assumes that this works as it does in classic, which is not always the case for these things, but I think it is here. Here's a summary of powers like this in classic.

* This is the only point here that's not 100% clear based on classic 'scape interpretation, but any other interpretation seems really weird.