The Book of Black King

[johnny139]

I don't mind Hahma's approach (and if Shaw is indeed more on that level manipulator-wise we should probably stick there) but a once per game +3 to attack isn't very splashy. I guess the main point is whether we feel the need for a splashy major game-changer power for him.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, since it's once per game and all, this might be splashier:

POWER PLAY
Once per game, before a figure you control that is not Black King attacks during its turn, you may reveal any number of Order Markers on this card. For each Order Marker revealed, you may add 2 to the Attack number of that figure this turn.

[Hahma]

That's an easy fix

I sometimes tend to be conservative in power level in some designs and need a nudge in bumping up the "bam!" factor

I think a +2 for just the X is decent when he doesn't want to be too risky, or the opponent isn't worthy of more. But throwing down OM's 2, 3 and X to give a one time boost of +6 means he's willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to get the job done.

[IAmBatman]

Yep. And a +6 to an attack (average of +3 skulls) has just the right of "once per game" epic feeling to it, IMO.

[Hahma]

Thanks for the input guys.

I updated the SP since it's been 48+ hours.

Sent to ERB

[IAmBatman]

Cool. I look forward to seeing how he plays.

[Good Pig]

Hate to say it, but did you guys consider Deadly Shot or Strike with this?

[Good Pig]

Also, It's a neat mechanic and all, but not having any representation of the Hellfire Club on any of its members seems very odd.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Hate to say it, but did you guys consider Deadly Shot or Strike with this?

It's once per game and a single attack and you're potentially giving up the rest of your round to use it. Even if you're adding +6 to an attack with Deadly Strike/Shot, that's like adding +12 to a single attack only, which is still in Hulk range (and Hulk is 370-380). Against anyone but an Event Hero, that's no worse than an auto destroy power. I do think this guy's points will go up to 240-260 or so, though, potentially.

Maybe to avoid these types of concerns, it's better to add one auto skull per OM removed?

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

It's once per game and a single attack and you're potentially giving up the rest of your round to use it. Even if you're adding +6 to an attack with Deadly Strike/Shot, that's like adding +12 to a single attack only, which is still in Hulk range (and Hulk is 370-380). Against anyone but an Event Hero, that's no worse than an auto destroy power. I do think this guy's points will go up to 240-260 or so, though, potentially.

Maybe to avoid these types of concerns, it's better to add one auto skull per OM removed?

Hmmm...that's probably why I likely went with the +1 skull before, as in the back of my mind I was thinking about the extra doubling up potential with more attack dice for certain figures.

The auto skull would eliminate the Deadly Shot/Strike issue since those only double up on skulls "rolled". One guy that I just checked out was Deadshot who, if he doesn't move can add 3 to his range for 10 and 1 auto skull to his attack, which is normally 4. So it would be 4 and an auto skull or 5 with height and and auto skull. So revealing 3 OMs on BK would give him a total of 4 auto skulls for that attack! That is a case where it can be abused, or if [redacted] gets his +2 auto skulls for [redacted] and for be x spaces away, that would give him up to +5 auto skulls for that attack and an easier trigger for [redacted] because of being easier to kill someone.

It's only once per game and would sacrifice the rest of the round for sure, so that's a plus. But if it's used to take out Mr. F on turn 1 or 2 in a round and he has all OM's on his card, then that's not so good.

Strategically, it would certainly give the opponent something to think about. Do you kill BK right away to avoid this, or do you attack the figure/s that he could most influence against you. It would certainly offer some interesting gameplay decisions.

Thematically, it would really make the opponent kind of squirm and fear for not knowing what to expect and when. Certainly 1 OM on another figure's card in BK's army and 3 OM's on him is a pretty good tip off, but then again, it can be a fake out as well and maybe he uses the power in the next round, but he'd have to live to do that. So when the opponent sees the OM's lined up in that way to maximize the power, if they win initiative they would either have to decide to attack the opponent's figure with has the single OM on his card as they are the beneficiary of BK's boost, or you attack BK if he's close enough to dying. Of course if the other figure is Deadshot and can attack from 10 spaces away, you might not be able to reach them, but if nothing else you can try to move a figure out of his LOS.

It also would only work for normal attacks since special attacks can't be modified. So while it would be an awesome boost vs. Superman, he would still get Man of Steel, and others would also benefit from special defenses vs. normal attacks. Figures with Magical Defense would only take a max of 1 wound no matter how many skulls Deadshot rolled. Figures with d20's that avoid wounds would also still get to avoid damage no matter how many skulls are in affect against them.

Ultimately, it could come down to having a good or bad match-up against BK. You could have a bunch of low cost mid-levels and squaddies to minimize the threat potential of taking down a huge point figure. You could have a bunch of figures with special defenses that can also minimize the threat potential.

If BK shoots his wad so to speak by using OM's 2, 3 and X for an attack that kills a mid-level hero or misses (or only dishes 1 wound) a hero with special defense, then his army is opened up to probably 2 turns of being attacked without having OM's to react. So this can be very risky for him too. Though if it's done either early enough in a game, his army could have time to recover and if it's done at end game, it could be the nail in the coffin for the opponent. But then again, if the opponent lets BK or his beneficiary live that long, it's kind of their fault anyway.

I can leave it up for further discussion, as we don't need to rush this for any reason.

I should probably send the ERB guys a PM to cancel their review for now.

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Also, It's a neat mechanic and all, but not having any representation of the Hellfire Club on any of its members seems very odd.

Instead of Power Play, could we call it HELLFIRE INFLUENCE to get Hellfire Club involved? Or do you have other ideas GP? I really don't know a ton about these guys other than they use the club as a front and do a lot of behind the scenes manipulating or whatever because of their wealthy/powerful influence from the members.

Not sure the other members, other than Emma Frost are going to be done, as I'm doing him only to fill out the booster. Maybe White Queen can have a power on her card that refers to a Mutant Industrialist to get some kind of bonding there? I thought about the Hellfire Club Guards, but I don't really intend to do those guys and if they are done, a synergy with BK can be on their card in the same manner perhaps as with White Queen.

I was trying to incorporate the Hellfire Club behind the scenes manipulation with Power Play, though the name of the power might not have implied that. I'm certainly open for suggestions though.

One concern I'm beginning to have though, is that fans are going to be disappointed with just Black King and not having the other Hellfire Club members released with him. I can see that as a potential issue and wonder if we should just scrap this guy and put him on hold in case the other Club members are ever done. Personally, I only drafted him to fill that booster and am LD'ing him now to help finish that wave. But I never intended to do the entire Hellfire Club, or if I ever did get around to it, it would be a long ways off since I have a lot more stuff I want to do long before the HF club would ever see the light of day.

Maybe a former Hero can come back and work on the Hellfire Club designs.

[Good Pig]

Hellfire Club Influence would be the perfect name and theme for a power on Black King.

Think of these guys like The Skulls or The Masons. Secretive club with a lot of influence over politics that strives to keep their group going for generations and has secret agendas to achieve their own selfish goals. I was actually trying to think of a mechanic last night, but I had some people over and wasn't able to go anywhere with the idea.

Initially I thought an initiative boost, but that can be kind of boring. What if you thought of Black King as sort of an alternative to Xavier or Magneto builds? He could offer a bonus, but would require an OM on his card. That would keep him in check so he likely wouldn't be doubled up with Xavier or Destiny.

HELLFIRE CLUB INFLUENCE
If there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, all other Unique Mutant Heroes you control roll 1 additional attack die.

A constant attack boost of one can show how they use information to gain the upper hand. If you went off just Mutant Heroes the only Hellfire Club member that would be left out is Donald Pierce (cyborg), but he was actually kicked out of the club so he could potentially be left out of the synergy too. They also eventually recruited new members into the Inner Circle to replace old ones over time. Magneto and Storm have both been part of the Inner Circle too.

As far as the individual Hellfire Club members working better together than typically mutants, you could just use them together because they have complimenting powers similar to the Rogues.

- Sebastian Shaw, cheerleader + heavy hitter (with Kinetic Absorption)
- Emma Frost, great special attack
- Harry Leland, defense
- Selene, shark
- Mastermind, OM flexibility + works well with Emma Frost

[Hahma]

That could work GP. Thanks Though he could still be in a Prof X build and have OM 3 on his card and allow 2 activations for each of the first 2 OM's revealed on Prof X's card and allow him to keep the X for defensive use. So that could be still pretty nasty in allowing Wolverine to get attacks of 5 on OM1 and 2, while another Mutant is taking turns with him from Prof X. Same for Deadpool getting base double attacks of 5 for potentially 2 turns a round while another Mutant is taking turns also with him