Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[caps]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Othkurik is much more slight than Kalagrith. The dragon feels masculine with the thickness of the legs and torso of the bronze dragon. I think the feminine quality is mistaken for a serpentine feel it has. The overall mass of Kalagrith vs Othkurik has me feeling that Kalagrith is about 50-60% larger overall.

None of that implies masculinity. In many species, the females are larger and stronger. Anyway, I said that the figure does not look either masculine or feminine because dragons typically look sexually monomorphic.

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Nilf, Zelrig and Charos's bios all discuss their nobility. All Icarian Dragons I think? This leads me to believe that dragons from that land are held in high regards. A type of royalty has been assigned to them , whether general perception or otherwise.

Then why not Princess? We have two Kings, an Emperor, a Queen, and a Prince. This figure is not big enough to be an Empress or a Queen.

However, again, Mimring and Quahon both hail from Icaria and neither are royal.

--

Anyhow, I've asked my questions and you've offered your explanations. This is not a workshop thread, so to review Kalagrith.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

None of that implies masculinity. In many species, the females are larger and stronger. Anyway, I said that the figure does not look either masculine or feminine because dragons typically look sexually monomorphic.

Then why not Princess? We have two Kings, an Emperor, a Queen, and a Prince. This figure is not big enough to be an Empress or a Queen.

However, again, Mimring and Quahon both hail from Icaria and neither are royal.

--

Anyhow, I've asked my questions and you've offered your explanations. This is not a workshop thread, so to review Kalagrith.

Not to chime in here late but Capsocrates is right. Just because our species has sexual dimorphism where our males are bigger on average, in some species, that isn't the case. For instance here are some cases:

Spoiler Alert!

blue whale
hyena
anglerfish
black myotis bat
many types of insects
some dinosaurs are believed to be like this too, ex. Tyrannosaurs

Sorry, to be all nature geek, but that's my two cents. Maybe dragons from other planets (such as Toril rather than Icaria) have this sexual dimorphism which is the opposite of Icaria's. It would make it more interesting in my opinion.

[dok]

I'm quite mystified by people saying that Baron feels weird when Duke or King or Queen is OK. These are all noble titles on the same continuum. One feels more "human" than another? Why? Would you feel the same way about Count or Marquis? Why?

I get thinking it's a little off in your head-canon, but rejecting the figure because it's a Baron instead of a Princess is just really weird, caps.

[caps]

Originally Posted by dok

I'm quite mystified by people saying that Baron feels weird when Duke or King or Queen is OK. These are all noble titles on the same continuum. One feels more "human" than another? Why? Would you feel the same way about Count or Marquis? Why?

I get thinking it's a little off in your head-canon, but rejecting the figure because it's a Baron instead of a Princess is just really weird, caps.

It doesn't have to be Princess at all. That part was more of a suggestion to do something new in the same vein as what has been done.

I think Duke, Baron, Count, Marquis, Knight, Lord, etc. all feel 'off' for a dragon. They imply that dragons have a much more complicated hierarchy than it seems to me that they do. Kinseth was unable to persuade me to feel otherwise, so I voted .

EDIT: "Prince of the Dragons" / "Dragon Prince"
"King of the Dragons" / "Dragon King"
"Queen of the Dragons" / "Dragon Queen"
"Emperor of the Dragons" / "Dragon Emperor"
all feel 'right' and natural.

"Count of the Dragons" / "Dragon Count",
"Baron of the Dragons" / "Dragon Baron" etc. all just feel off.

[flameslayer93]

All dragons are different, and are equipped with differing personalities to match (and not just whats on the card).

Mimring is considered a beast, and probably considered a random wild dragon who eats everyone and takes pride in his methods.
Charos, I feel is an older dragon, given his posture and combat prowess. Respected as a king, and he'll gladly enjoy that title.
Braxas is big and crazy, and her peasants know not to get in her way when she's mad. She likes to know that she is in command, and loves being the center of attention.
Nilfheim is a younger king, possibly because other white dragons love to fight as well. Those who see him in action knows he loves to get into a fight, and is quite the physical fighter.
Zelrig is a prince, and as such hasn't quite developed the maturity to be given the title of king yet. He is still learning and with time his tribes will love him.
Quahon was an enigma, only taking action when it suited her and when she had to feed. This may be because of her lightening breath being wicked and wild... Harming those who aren't her prey isn't her style.

How would another dragon fit? I'm excited to see your response Kinseth.

[dok]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I think Duke, Baron, Count, Marquis, Knight, Lord, etc. all feel 'off' for a dragon. They imply that dragons have a much more complicated hierarchy than it seems to me that they do. Kinseth was unable to persuade me to feel otherwise, so I voted .

EDIT: "Prince of the Dragons" / "Dragon Prince"
"King of the Dragons" / "Dragon King"
"Queen of the Dragons" / "Dragon Queen"
"Emperor of the Dragons" / "Dragon Emperor"
all feel 'right' and natural.

"Count of the Dragons" / "Dragon Count",
"Baron of the Dragons" / "Dragon Baron" etc. all just feel off.

So Lord would be OK then?

This is at least a consistent semantic position, albeit a very odd one.

[caps]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

...
Zelrig is a prince an emperor...

Fixed.

[caps]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I think Duke, Baron, Count, Marquis, Knight, Lord, etc. all feel 'off' for a dragon.

Originally Posted by dok

So Knight and Lord would be OK then?

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Conceivably, Lord might work, as one could be the "Lord of the Dragons" or "A/The Dragon Lord." However, in this particular instance that introduces surely undesirable synergies. I would expect a Dragon Lord to be very powerful, very large, and, considering the Skeletons of Annelintia, somehow possessed of Dark Magic.

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Fixed.

So he is. Oops.

The rest of that stuff still stands though.

[dok]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

My point is that (at least to my ear) "Dragon Knight" and "Dragon Lord" sound perfectly natural. I suppose "Knight of the Dragons" sounds a little strange, hence my quick edit to remove Knight.

I'm just trying to figure out what motivates your position, since it's very clearly not based on the reality of what these titles meant historically, nor is it based on the way the Hasbro Dragons are portrayed in the lore.

[caps]

Originally Posted by dok

I'm just trying to figure out what motivates your position, since it's very clearly not based on the reality of what these titles meant historically, nor is it based on the way the Hasbro Dragons are portrayed in the lore.

While the dragon bios typically mention numerous varieties of dragons in Icaria, I see nothing in them that leads me to suppose the Dragons had a hierarchy more complex than a simple Ruler* + Child of Ruler** + possibly Ruler-Spouse system in place.

*King/Queen/Emperor/Empress
**Prince/Princess

[Kinseth]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

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Conceivably, Lord might work, as one could be the "Lord of the Dragons" or "A/The Dragon Lord." However, in this particular instance that introduces surely undesirable synergies. I would expect a Dragon Lord to be very powerful, very large, and, considering the Skeletons of Annelintia, somehow possessed of Dark Magic.

Lord would work, but I discounted Lord because of the interactions with Skeles(Which should have Undead required in the power if you are asking me...). I wanted to give the feel of a lesser noble/royal to this dragon. Not as big and as large as others, but a small following none-the-less. Duke was another one I was considering, but axed for the same reason. All of these sound fine to me, and Heroscape has painted the majority of the dragons as Royals/Nobles to an extent. Sure they can be otherwise, but that is not how I designed/envisioned Kalagrith to be.